How Oregon Oak And Scottish Peat Shape A Bold American Single Malt with Master Distiller Caitlin Bartlemay

We sit down with master distiller Caitlin Bartlemay to dig into why American single malt keeps gaining ground and why McCarthy’s still stands out after decades on the shelf. We get practical about peat, Oregon oak maturation, proof, climate, and what it takes to steward a whiskey brand without chasing every trend. 

• the rise of American single malt and what category recognition changes for shelves and menus 
• Caitlin’s farm and winery background and how it shapes her approach to distilling 
• learning the job through apprenticeship culture and the realities of early distillery work 
• what defines McCarthy’s American single malt and why the core process stays consistent 
• Oregon oak (Garryana) casks, reuse, cask sizes, and why time in wood is more than colour 
• how warehouse climate affects proof and maturation at the base of Mount Hood 
• why the six-year McCarthy’s is bottled at 100 proof and how it drinks 
• tasting language, peat as an on-ramp, and the idea that whiskey should stop you mid sip 
• limited experiments, special finishes, and where to watch for releases 

remember www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. We’ve got Glenn Karen’s in t-shirts, so check check out the website or just contact me directly. Facebook message me or mention uh comment on YouTube. And then also remember on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, and then we also on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify, and anywhere else that you listen to a podcast, we are there. Make whether you listen to us or watch us, make sure that you leave good feedback and become members. Leave super chats. That’s always good on thank you, Kirk, for your super chat tonight. 

A peated American single malt aged in Oregon oak shouldn’t work this well and that’s exactly why we had to talk about it. We’re joined by Caitlin Bartlemay, master distiller behind McCarthy’s American Single Malt, to unpack how a whiskey can be smoky, fruity, and bold without turning into a palate-wrecker. Along the way, we get into why American single malt keeps surging, what it means when stores finally label a real “American Single Malt” section, and why bourbon fans are starting to look for something beyond dessert flavours.

Caitlin brings a rare mix of backgrounds: farm kid problem-solving, years of winery work, and a food science education built on hands-on production. That story matters because it shows up in the way McCarthy’s is made and protected. We talk through the brand’s fingerprint: peated malted barley sourced from Scotland, copper distillation, glacial-fed water, and maturation in 100% Garryana (Oregon oak) barrels, including what happens when you reuse casks over multiple cycles and why “time in wood” is about more than extractive-heavy colour.

Then we taste and debate the six-year McCarthy’s at 100 proof, from smoke character to mouthfeel to the surprising ways peat can play like mezcal in a cocktail. We also touch experiments like rum cask aging, what trends get right and wrong, and how a whiskey should make you stop mid conversation and actually notice what’s in your glass.

If you enjoy American whiskey, craft distilling, single malt, peat, barrel aging, and real production talk, hit subscribe, share this with a whiskey friend, and leave us a review where you listen. What’s your personal peat limit?

voice over Whiskey Thief

If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

Sponsor And Whiskey Roots

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Middlewest Spirits was founded in 2008, focusing on elevating the distinct flavors of the Ohio River Valley. Their spirits honor their roots and reflect their originality as makers, their integrity as producers, and their passion for crafting spirits from grain to glass. Their Mixalone Reserve line reflects their story from the start to the bottle to your glass, with unique wheated and rye bourbons, and also rye and wheat whiskeys. The Mixelone brand is easy to stick. It might be a grain to glass experience, but I like to think of it as uncut and unfiltered from their family to yours. Oh, tonight it's gonna be a fun one, everybody. We have Caitlin Bartlemay coming on right from Oregon. Welcome, Caitlin.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I didn't kill your name, did I? Was that right?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Oh no, no, you crushed it. You just gotta go into it. You just gotta go into it big and bold. Like it's phonetic, it's Bartlemay or Bartlemay. I don't care how you pronounce it.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Bertle May. Okay, there you go. Okay. I probably should have asked you that before, but sure. All right. Thank you. Thanks. But it's it's so great to have you here. I mean, the one of the things when when Laura asked to have you on, and then I she sent me the six-year-old, and then the that's the regular single malts, American single malts. And American single malt has been, I it's been kind of revving up, and then

Meet Caitlin And The Single Malt Rise

SPEAKER_00 2:58

it kind of plateaus, and then it revs back up, and then it kind of plateaus, you know, going up against, you know, and you see it as something that is, you know, everybody's kind of paying more and more attention to. We have a distiller here in uh called Middle West Spirits, and they actually, when they did their, when they were building their 72,000 square foot huge, giant distillery, they were they changed a couple of the cooking, you know, tanks to be able to handle the American or the fermenting tanks to handle the single malt because of the when you put it into when he was he would always have clogging issues if the if it was too much, the the angle was too much, was and what you wouldn't have with bourbon. So he actually created that to create you know American single malts. And when you're when you're paying that kind of attention at a large distillery, you kind of feel like it's revving up again. And I get that feeling right now. What are your thoughts on that one?

SPEAKER_01 4:04

I mean, no, I I I don't disagree. You know, if we're kind of used to the ebb and flow of various trends over over time, you know, what's all the rage, what's not the rage. It's just you know, fast fashion, that fast part. That doesn't necessarily just apply to fashion anymore, right? You know, everything changes so quickly. I, you know, as an elder millennial, I think it's hilarious that I'm seeing some of the things that I was, you know, that were the the cool clothes when I was in high school come back. Uh the same amount of cringe I'm sure you know my parents had when they saw that bell bottom pants were coming back when I was young, and uh they're coming around again. Bless them. So yeah, I I think, you know, for American single malt, the the tide has always been rising and it maybe the speed has changed, but it's still always been, you know, on the on the upward side of things. I have some kind of fun numbers to throw around real quick just to kind of drive that home. A couple years ago, I counted up all of the single malt distilleries around the world. There were over 900. There, 250 of those were just in the United States alone. So considering that McCarthy's is the first American single mall released in 1998, and to see us go from one in 1998 to over 250, clearly the producers and also the consumers have decided that American single malt is a thing. It's a category, it's a category that people are interested, they're learning more about, interested in exploring. And then, you know, from the production side, interesting and take and their their take their, you know, what their climate, what their grain, what their what their equipment can possibly do to put their fingerprint fingerprint on that category and and add their bottle to the shelf. Uh, and so really, you know, when we saw the TCB get the classification over the finish line, for for us, I don't really think that's gonna change a whole lot for the producers that are excited about the category, or really the consumers that were already, you know, out there visiting American single mall distilleries and buying those bottles and and gifting them to friends and talking about them, you know, at the water cooler. What we were really hoping it was gonna be that middle space, the you know, the the large box store retailers, you know, some of those larger chain restaurants and even the small mom and pop ones, um seeing the validity in the category and then you know, adding that shelf space, adding that menu space. So instead of just saying American whiskey or American single mall getting lost somewhere between Canadian and Scotch, or you know, somewhere, you know, somewhere next to bourbon, but nobody really knows what it is, and actually seeing those signs come out, those sections and menus come out that say, no, if you're looking for an American single mall, this is our section in the liquor store that's dedicated to American single mall. This is the section in the menu that's these are the American single malls. This is the spirits list. We have a whole page of American single moths that are right here. Um so it was really getting those things to kind of connect the dots between the consumers that were already excited about it and the producers that fell in love ages ago.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Right. And I really think it with in that direction of what you just said. So initially, you know, scotch was a was the thing. I mean, people for a long time, you watch even the television shows and everything, scotch was what people were were drinking, and bourbon, as it started the whole, you know, boom, that kind of took scotch and kind of put it in the background. And uh when I first would go, Scotch and bourbon aisle, the Scotch bourbon aisle, they were either half and half, or it's half with Scotch, half on one side, or they were you turned around, scotch was on this side and bourbon was on that side. But the sc but the scotch had a lot more at that time, there was a lot more scotch to choose from than bourbon. Bourbon had a lot, I'm not saying, but the the choices of the different scotches and everything. And then once bourbon now you walk down, and bourbon's got like twice as much space. Scotch has been reduced, and where you what what you're looking at now is that American single malt can basically make somebody who wants to drink something like, but they want to stay American, you know, and so you can drink America, you're drinking American whiskey, but it's right there with as a single malt, and the the flavors and the tastes and the fruitiness and everything, that's all that's all American now. It's almost like it's they're taking over that category here in America. I'm not not in Scotland or Ireland. I don't want to get everybody upset, you know, what that, but you can see that where, you know, when you're a bourbon drinker, it's kind of like when you're a kid and you then become an adult, and for like you move out on your own, and it's the first time in your life you can have strawberry pie, donuts, and ice cream all in one day, and you can eat dessert all day long without eating, and you're like, one, that's not really healthy or good for you, and you find out that quick, but two, that's to me what what bourbon is is like the dessert. And you when you drink the dessert all the time and you come through, you start wanting more, you want to have some of the other flavors that whiskey can, you know. I mean, I think Japanese whiskey does a great job with some different flavors and American single malts, and that's one of the, you know, well, that's kind of how the category, and you just feel that the bourbon drinkers have matured enough where they're gonna really start looking at that category.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I love that your term, your term mature. I will I have a fun kind of anecdote that came up. My so I grew up a farmer, a a great deal of you know, my my education when it comes to like the farm side of things and also you know the generational family, business, family farm thing is that you know, passing those stories down from generation to generation. My dad is an excellent storyteller, that's where I get it from. I get my my little tip the tidbit of bard that's in me comes from my dad for sure. The amount of time, in fact, he still holds court every Friday in his garage. They've since retired to Central Oregon, but a bunch of his buddies go over to his garage every Friday to have a to have a drink. And and he's an excellent storyteller. So one of the stories that he that I grew up with, to your point, as far as the maturing goes, is the first college party that he went to, you know, and the liquor store at that point in time, uh, everything was behind the counter. And so you couldn't just you were just like walking through the shelves and trying to him and the ha. You went into and there was just a bar and a person behind it, and they're a wall of bottles, and you'd have to be like, I would like that, please make climb up the ladder and get it. Right? Like super old school. Even at the time, and you know, if this would have been in the late 70s and in 1980, I believe it was there was a hundred breweries and only 50 distilleries in the United States. I sometimes get the 50 and 100 flip, so it could be the other way around. But regardless, a teeny tiny amount in comparison to what we're used to, you know, over the last 10 years. So there wasn't that much selection, but he panicked at looking at all the options, didn't know what to do. And so he was just like, give me that bottle of old crow. And I will I will caveat this old pro 70s is not necessarily what we're used to today.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah, much better, much bottle the day dusty.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Um right, and he took them to the party, and a bunch of the like the older guys at the party laughed because they're like, they're like, yes, what you brought to the party, and then they all were kind of quietly like, don't worry about it. Like, we did the same thing when we went to our first college party, just because you're like, I don't know what to do, but I hear people drink this, or I know my dad used to drink this, or I know bourbon's all a rage. I guess I'll drink bourbon. And so your point in that maturity, it's like, okay, now I've had a lot of bourbon. I know what bourbon tastes like, and I feel uh, you know, brave enough now that I know enough about whiskey, that I know some things about whiskey, what I like, what I don't like. Maybe it is actually time to start exploring a little bit more instead of sticking with something that is, you know, my root one every day. Like there is a sense of adventure, a sense of exploration with the flavors that you could possibly get from an American single mall across the country. And every American single mall, because there's no because there's no originality and everybody's kind of taking their own take on it, it is vastly different, which to me is amazing because there is so much opportunity for flavor and to really find something that each well and truly love whilst enjoying the journey along the way.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yes. And then uh, I mean, also then there's lots of different choices. A lot of people with American single malt. I I the one of the American single malts was that I taste, got to taste was Thornton, which is a distillery right outside of Chicago. On they are built right on the limestone, the largest limestone quarry in the United States, and they're right on the edge of it, okay? They've got a limestone aquifer flowing underneath it. It's where it was a brewery before it was where Capone, you know, brewed beer, whatever. It's the coolest place, okay? But Ari, the distiller there, he actually has an American single malt that he used uh Illinois peat, which I didn't even know there was Illinois peat.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

So he he used peat across the sea. Yes. It's not just uh it's not just in Scotland.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah, so it was just kind of, and it was actually, we got to taste it right from the barrel, and it was fantastic. I haven't been there. I'm trying to get there coming up. John Ritt, one of the guys that's on and commenting and everything. He lives right right there in that area of Chicago. So we go there and visit him from time to time. But yes, that's the so just real quick, start me off with what I what what what's here and what do I have in the bottle? And a question. Okay, so you talked about we're just gonna get right back onto track here. I went off off, but I went up.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

But so you grew up wherever you go, my dude. So you can write in your coattails.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I mean, so you grew up on a uh on a farm, and it was uh it was an agricultural farm, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

Yeah, so I I I refer to it oftentimes as a wheat ranch, and that didn't seem weird until fairly recently. And people were like, Oh, you mean wheat farm? And I'm like, Well, okay, so it was I was fourth generation, they got rid of the cows when I was three, but my dad grew up like an actual real cowboy. Like he grew up riding two horses into the ground every day as a part of his job. You know, he he he stopped wearing cowboy boots and cowboy hats when they got rid of the cows because that wasn't his like that wasn't his lifestyle, that wasn't his his style, personal style, it was his uniform. Because those those those things are a part of the PPE when you're an actual cowboy. Um just like when he quit the highway department,

Farm Life And The Path To Spirits

SPEAKER_01 15:25

he stopped wearing bright orange t-shirts. Um but because it was you know, for a hundred years, you know, there were it was a you know proper front, you know, Western frontier homestead with the pigs and the goats and the chickens and the cows and the whole shouldang. Um that was why we called it a weak advantage.

SPEAKER_05 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Okay. So did that, I mean, did how uh would you say that was one of the reasons why when you went to school you chose to kind of get into the you know the distilling aspect?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Oh very clear. There's two very specific reasons. Three. There's three very specific reasons that I ended up where I'm at. One, um, my parents started a winery. When I tell you that I've been teaching adults how to drink alcohol for over 20 years, my parents started a winery when I was in middle school. So like my dad was driving the tractor and he was doing the math on this is so much I make per acre on soft white winter wheat. And then, like, you know, grapes were a thing. And you know, we were really, even though we were in the high desert, we were certainly blessed to be on a very plentiful uh water source. And so he was like, Okay, well, how much can I make with this whole grape thing? And he's like, Why am I not growing grapes? This is dumb. And he had, you know, like a lot of dads, you know, started fermenting things in the basement. So it started out as like strawberry wine, blackberry wine, and you know, strawberry rhubarb wine, like all kinds of just ridiculous, sugary, fermented, alcoholic things. Um, and since I was their employee, you know, I would spend the whole weekend in the basement crushing up grapes or raspberries or whatever. And then he eventually, you know, planted the grapes and went professional. So we had a winery from I think Weed Ridge started. I want to say it was official probably by the time I was in eighth grade, maybe a freshman in high school. And then closed when I when quote, I went pro because they didn't have as much free labor anymore. So it closed in 2010 when I got uh when I got my my job here at Clickric Distillery. But uh so part of it definitely, you know, I was already essentially an assistant winemaker in high school, and I was going to restaurants or not restaurants, I was going to grocery stores doing winery tastings because when you're underage, you can't serve behind a bar, but you can serve at tasting events. So I was doing all the wineries like outreach tasting events as as an 18-year-old. Because that totally makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Well, it does because I come from the era where 18 was the drinking age, not 21. You know, things changed. So 18 18 made sense to serve. I I mean, honestly. But you know, I'm sure you have the I mean in Oregon, do they have the rule that you can drink with your parents starting at?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I don't know if that's a legal rule, but that was certainly my parents' rule.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I grew up in Wisconsin. I mean, it was a rule. They could you could be at the bar with your 12-year-old, and if you wanted to have a have something, as long as you were with your parents, you could have something.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Oh, interesting. Yeah, I don't think that was the case in Oregon. If it was, it was not widely shared.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Okay. So I would think that was a question I was gonna ask you. What how do we how you know Oregon and that and this area is a is a continuation of the valley, you know, the Napa Valley up into that area. And honestly, there's a lot of wineries. I mean, my daughter initially went out there to be a part of one of the, you know, the harvests. You know, she went out for a harvest and hasn't come back. So she was heavy into the she's worked at three different wineries, and now she's at this one, and then they they they started her distilling. I have been trying to get her to distill. I, you know, I know enough people in Kentucky that, you know, she's and she's enough that I could get, I'm like, come back, go to Kentucky, you know, because because where she was was, you know, but she's happy here at at Tristatum and and doing what she's doing. Very smart girl. Her palette's amazing because she can remember everything she's tasted. I mean, she has like that photographic memory, so it's just been it's been it's been it's been a lot of fun, but that's why I was like distilling when so you so you came out of the winery and went to school.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

And yeah, and I also um, you know, when satellite uh TV finally hit the farm, I was I was uh Food Network's number one fan. My parents still to this day, I think, don't really understand why their you know weird tomboy farm kid was so interested in Iron Chef Japan, but I still stand it. It is the best TV that has ever been created, ever. Uh and so uh yeah, but I I you know all in Brown and Iron Chef Japan, like I was all in. Turns out Oregon State here, um, Oregon, it's an agricultural school, but it actually has a really amazing food science program with both wine, uh brewing and dairy options alongside just regular straight up food science. I think they also have a sensory science portion as well. It's an incredible program. It's one of the one of the few in the country that actually uh as a part of the education program offer hands-on experience. So they actually have a pilot plant that's attached to the food science building. So as a part of learning how to do all these things, you spend a term actually making wine, you spend a term actually brewing beer. Like during the beer process, we work together as a class to malt grain together. So, like we've managed to use equipment that we had on the food processing plant to malt our own grain to then dry and turn into our own beer. And so there are a lot of food science programs across the country, but not all of them offer you that like actual, legitimate, hands-on using the equipment, making a batch of something on at scale experience that the Oregon State programmed does. The hawking. I'm pretty sure they would have had opinions, but I was always gonna either I was gonna go to school for some sort of engineering until I found the food science department. So, and then you know, as a part of my food science degree, food engineering was a part of it. So off to food science, I went and took a beer, wine, and spirits class, which I thought was gonna be a joke because there's nothing like the confidence of the youth, but I pretty much. Everything about all these things, but was really blown away at how little I knew about the spirit side of things. And at the time there wasn't, you know, Discord servers full of nerds and and podcasts and YouTube channels interviewing producers and talking about you know the details about you know how this bottle ends up on a shelf. You know, if you went to a brand page, it was pretty much here's your whiskey, you're welcome. And so the only way to learn more is really to get a job at a distillery. So got a job at a distillery.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, and and you definitely learn more always, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Oh, and I I love and I'm a I'm a stand for the fact that the distilling industry still remains, at least to some extent, one where you where you learn a lot on the job. What one where um I can't find the word that I want, an apprenticeship. Well, one that's really based on that apprenticeship learning where you start, you you know, you start, you know, one, it's always good to have lots of experience on a bottling line or cleaning tanks or cleaning floors or whatever. But honestly, the opportunity to apprentice and really dig into the culture and the reason for what we're doing, what we're doing, instead of, you know, just you know, walking off of the factory floor of a university with a spreadsheet in hand and thinking that you're gonna run the place. That apprenticeship portion I think is really important to the culture and history of what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, I think I so we had in Hawking Hills, we have a college there that that offers the food service kind of thing because they they have they do distilling and brewing. And when they they started the program, they started making beer, and the beer was so good that it started, they were able to start selling it at a bar, and you know, and the bars were picking it up, and so that really drove the program, which then the distilling and everything, and so that it's it's it's it's really kind of a nice program. And you can see one of the cool things is it's almost like it becomes a working brewery, distillery, or winery. The the products are usually sought after, and if and if you most of the time they have a really good professor or distiller who is really interested in teaching the people how to do the students how to do it, and those initial students seem to always be coming back helping the the newer students. It's a really nice scenario that you can set up with that that program.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

But now when you got to let's say your first day at Clear Creek, I mean, what was that like coming from where you were the first day story, only a couple, oh well, maybe a few times at this point in time. Um so I was hired the day after my last final at Oregon State, um, certainly in 2010 to be hired before you even got your diploma, let alone hired before you got your diploma in a field that you were interested in. Pretty rare. So was super stoked about it, obviously passionate about learning more about distilling. So I'm all in my first day. We have a product at Clear Creek that we refer to as Pibbs. There, it's the pear in bottle. So we uh in the in the early spring, we take empty bottles and they're tied up onto the trees with the the the baby pear, uh like the bottles upside down, the baby pear pushed up all the way into the bottle. The

First Days At Clear Creek

SPEAKER_01 25:23

bottles spend the whole summer on the trees growing a pear inside the bottle. Before regular pear harvest, we harvest all the pears in bottle off the trees. They get cleaned extra specifically thoroughly, and then our pear brandy gets added to them and they're labels, and it's pear in bottle pin. They're super fun. Well, we've been making them for decades. Um, we don't make as many as they we used to. Thank you for this. At one point in time, they ended up on Oprah's list of like cool things to have for the holidays.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Not good.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

I would love for Oprah to love my pear brandy or to or any of the other wonderful things that we make and put them on her list. I would prefer she not put pibs on that list ever again because making one palette of them is plenty, making 10 palettes of them is a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Oh my god. So the pear grows, so then when you pick it, the pear's inside the bottle, and then you put the brandy in there, so the pear becomes part of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

So my first day, Steve refused to sell any pivots that didn't have a pear that had sunk in the bottle. The pear actually makes several trips up and down the bottle for reasons that I could get into if you have to know. But it eventually settles on the bottom of the bottle, and the packaging uh the label is designed around a p a pair that has sunk to the bottom of the bottle. So my first day was sorting sinkers from floaters.

unknown 26:49

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

And it was put like that, huh?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

No, that's literally what they're called. We need a bunch of sinkers to label. Um, so we need you to go through these six pallets of of brandy soaking pears in bottle, and we need you to put all the sinkers in boxes on that pallet, and we need you to put all the floaters back in the boxes as whole as whole cases so no you don't mess up the inventory count so that we have some pibs to label. And I did that for my first two days was sorting sinkers for floaters.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Okay, and then uh the eventually floaters floaters become sinkers, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah, yeah, eventually the floaters will become, and sometimes you can talk a floater into being a sinker, and like again, we can I can spend an hour on this whole thing. Yeah, I'm not like we're we're gonna talk about McCarthy's American single. But to answer your question and also to make a joke about my first couple days at Thur Creek, yeah, sorting sinkers from floaters. Wow, I just spent a whole lot of time, effort, and stress and anxiety and all the things making sure that I got this four-year degree and I'm doing something that I could have done when I was, I don't know, six. Uh yeah, it was a little bit disheartening. But here we are, 16 years later, and I had the privilege to speak with you on a podcast and laugh a little bit about my first couple days at at Clay Greek Distillery, which has now become you know my career as a as now that I'm a master distiller.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

So well, and so one of the things honestly, I think I look at all the different ways to become what you became. Okay. So there's many different paths. Like you said, you can you can bring some, I mean, and and distillers do this all the time. There's just people, sometimes people they might not have gone through they're helping out, but they didn't go through any college courses or whatnot. And then they they just get it, and then you're like, when when you you know as well as I do as as a distiller and and what you're doing with match, the people that it's all it's it's it's romantic and everything, but it really comes down to it's also a business, and you have to have people and you have to have people helping. And we all know that in the workforce, there's people who get it, and then there's people who just kind of work, and then there's people who eventually don't get it. I mean, as and that's one of the things that as a distiller you have to have to figure out. But what would you say what you learned, do you feel of your college education and the fermentation science and everything? How you how that helped you when, you know, because obviously that way has been successful because you're still here this many years later, and they picked you up right away. So, you know, and I would say, based off of your story knowing right now, just growing up on that farm and your mom and dad having a winery.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Steve saw my resume and uh and was like, this is a farm kid. Um, I need a farm kid. Because uh my predecessor, Joseph L. Sullivan, who's now the master distiller at Mind and Mill, he had actually spent two different times at the Crick Distillery over his career, and he had just left after his first stint, and he was the one that like fixed all the stuff. And he'd been gone for like three, four, or five months, I think. And like some of the stories that we've shared about like some of the things that I fixed during the early days, like, and just like Joseph would be like, I told them, I told them to do it, and he would get so worked out because there was equipment that he had, you know, spent a lot of time taking care of and making sure it was okay. And then like, and if you don't take care of your equipment, it will go derelict in short order. And so there was a number of things that I like picked up that gauntlet, unknowing that I was picking up a gauntlet. I was just like a farm kid that was used to fixing old equipment and doing what you can with what you've got. So yeah, no, I think I think the food science degree helped, but there's no doubt in my mind that Steve looked at my resume that had farm kid written all over it and was like, yep, I I think this is I like this. I like what I'm seeing.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, and I I just I think I think that was a great combination. Probably if you would have just come out as a farm kid, you could you could have done just fine, but I really feel the the as a farm kid, you add in the d that part of college and understanding how things work, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

It's kind of like the problem solving, you know, even honestly, just learning to do, essentially just learning to do what you're told is a big part portion of it. Like that's one of the secret keys to college is like don't think that you're gonna like teach the professor anything. Like if the professor says, I want a five-page paper on this, and you're like, you know what, they don't know what they're talking about. I'm gonna give them an eight-page paper and it's gonna be about this, that, and the other thing. They don't want that, they wanted a five-page paper on this. Uh, and so learning to like kind of that probably complete the task at hand and complete that fast in hand efficiently, and then being told the tools that become available, knowing where to find the information that you need, and like that is what what college provides.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Well, I would say that is not a millennial that statement that you're making there. There's a lot of millennials that think the opposite way. So you definitely, your farmhand and everything experience and how you had that aspect going for you.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

And that's just that specifically there. It was it was told to me before I went to college, but it was very specifically reinforced by a wonderful woman named Julie Bacon, who taught writing 222. And uh I figured college out by that time, but I was a senior, but because of the way that my science courses were, I ended up taking a lot of my what normally would you would have taken your freshman and sophomore year, I ended up taking them my senior year because of scheduling. Um, and I listened to her harp on all of those freshmen. And uh the first exam, there, the first paper that we wrote, she was like, I want you to write, you know, it's gonna be this many words, it's gonna be on any one of these five topics. And I was like, right, okay, this many words that I need to, here you go, done, right? Just get it over with. And there were so many of those students that just tried to do their own thing. And then she, it was a memorable moment for me because I was horrified because she held my paper up and pointed me out. And she was like, Like, what year are you in school? And I was like, Oh, I'm the senior. And she was like, See, see, she was the only one that actually did what she was told. The rest of you, you have three days to rewrite all of these. I said specifically what I wanted to do, and none of you get it. Yeah, God bless Julie Bacon. I hope she's still at Morgan State teaching right in 222.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

There you go. All right, so uh how uh so you you go here now, and you're and you you've been there for 15 years and distilling. So, what's the biggest difference now than when you first started out? You know, what how what where how has it evolved, put it that way? Uh what have you in those 15 years working with uh Steve and every you know becoming master distiller? What are some of the things that you've learned that you've and tried that has made what McCarthy's now, you know, single malt is now?

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Um, you know, there's just been kind of this again, I'm a steward of a brand. And so I would like honestly, from the production side, like very little to nothing has really changed. You know, we're still, you know, all the raw materials for all the clickery branded fruit

Stewardship And What Stays The Same

SPEAKER_01 34:26

grainies and the cores come from within 200 miles of the distillery. Uh, you know, we're still buying local wine that is the base for all of our fruit cores. We're still buying the pears that are grown here in the Hood River Valley, we're still ripening them in-house. It's the same four Arnold Holstein pot stills, the last one having been purchased in 2006. It's the same yeast strains, it's the same tanks. They're, you know, that the changes are small, but they need to be small in order to be respectful to the brand. So I think if you were to taste uh like the three-year, the white label is the the flagship. It's what we it's what started it all in 1998. It is a three-year uh American seal malt made with made with peat malted barley that we import from Scotland. Distill a single path on our brandy seals that are 100% copper, and then age and 100% Garyana oak or Oregon oak casks, and that's the same same Garyana oak, Oregon oak, same tree. And then cut to proof with our glacial fed spring water down to 85. It's not chill-filtered, it's just cut to proof at 85. Why 85? Because 85 was wicked awesome in 1998 because it was something over 80, and now the people are used to proofier stuff. They're like, no, 85, boring. And I'm like, you know what? It was cool when we first came out with it. But the changes have been slow and slow and respectful over time. If you were to compare the release in 1998 or the release in 2003 to the release that you have in your glass right now, they're going to be different. And part of that is by design. We are still putting the batches on the labels for McCarthy's. Every blend of McCarthy's, we're blending to like the fingerprint of McCarthy's, but we're not necessarily blending for every bottling to be exactly, exactly, exactly the same because of that craft aspect that we're working on, just because of the the story behind McCarthy's because of the romance and what we're trying to do with that brand. But there is, you know, there has been this slow and steady increase on you know the business efficiency side, obviously, as we learn things and learn how to make things a little bit better and faster and easier on ourselves, but also, you know, small incremental changes over time to to develop the flavoring, to develop the quality so that it's where we want to be and where we've always wanted it to be.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, and that uh that you answered the question. So some things have been made, you're doing the same things, but some things have been made easier because of over the those the years that there's there's little technology things or what uh whatnot. But how how about the volume? What's your volume like compared to what it was? Is it the same? Have you upped? Is it upped? What kind of what what kind of rick house storage?

SPEAKER_01 37:03

We you know, flattened for the last few years, um, which is unfortunate. I, you know, when I growing up in Quick Creek, I I still remember the days when the three-year release was at a place where we would have, you know, the release day at the tasting room and we'd have lines around the block and it was heavily allocated across the country. You know, we eventually started making enough that that didn't necessarily need to be an issue. And I think, you know, part of the romance of the brand was that like you could only get it during a certain amount or during certain times. You had to keep an eye on when the release was. So like I think losing that piece of the story has maybe has maybe changed the perception. But also there's just a lot more whiskey out there in the market. And you know, we've always been this kind of smaller, the smaller brand made by really passionate people. So certainly I've heard from a lot of consumers, they're like, Yeah, I don't tell any of my friends about McCarthy's because I don't want you guys to run out. And I'm like, no, no, no. Tell your friends, I'll make more. There's more.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

There, I can make more.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

It's okay. So, what kind of so a lot of times one of the things with American single malt is you can put it into used barrels, correct?

unknown 38:12

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

What what do you what are you putting your single malts? What kind of barrels are you putting them in?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Are you putting so it's all 100% Oregon Oak barrels, both new and used. Okay. Um, because of the lifespan of the brand and the again, you know, learning by trial and error, you know, as we as we grow, as as as we move forward, there is like four different sizes of Oregon Oak cast that we have in the barrel room currently, because at one point uh we we've always sourced all of our Oregon oak barrels from uh Rick DeFerrari at Oregon Barrel Works in McMinnville, Oregon. He's a really amazing guy. He's been very open about like sharing all of his like coopering techniques with us to the extent that I actually just taught a class on how to fix barrels at the American Grab Spears Association conference this last year. And that's all stuff

Oregon Oak Barrels And Time

SPEAKER_01 39:02

that Rick was very kind enough to have trained the Clear Creek team, and it's now information that we pass up pass on to our team members as a you know, evergreen information that that's tough to come by, really, unless you're again at that apprentice opportunity. Um but at one point in time, Rick reached out to Steve, our founder, and was like, Hey, I'm messing around with some larger cask sizes. Do you want to buy some 400-liter barrels, which to have for us that's at like 103, 104 gallon working capacity? And he was like, more whiskey per unit of barrel? Yeah, let's do that. That sounds great. And I will admit the first few whiskies that we released out of those barrels, we didn't really care for. They were a little, they seemed kind of dry and they didn't have like they were like missing some of the the richness that we were used to with McCarthy's. Were they new? No, but yeah, they were new, yeah. New medium, all of our organok is medium toast. So yeah, new medium toast, 400 liter organo casks. But we have found, you know, now that these casks are on their third or maybe fourth, you know, whiskey maturation cycle, that's where most of our single barrels come out of now is that uh 400 series. Um, because it's just over time, the amount of the, you know, the extractives that have been lost and the ability of the cask to mature a whiskey, we've actually found that we like them better now that they've kind of settled into the maturation cycle. You know, bourbon has unfortunately convinced everybody that barrels only have the one use, even though the world knows that there's more even one use in an American oak barrel because every spirit around the world has been aged in ex-burban casts. It's only just been cool to tell people in the last few years. You know, Scotch whiskey and and rum and tequila, they've all been aged in ex-burban casts for decades.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah. Um Scotch.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

It's only been cool to be like, by the way, did you know ex-bourbon cast? It's like, yeah, it has it has been. You're not, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Somebody, somebody had to when you can only, I mean, it's not a necessity. I mean, initially they there was a glut of oak barrels, which which made sense to make bourbon in a new oak barrel because they had so many. Then all of sudden, now what are you gonna do with them? You can only use them once. And Scotch and and Irish, they all that that's where they started, they just started selling them over there, and that they can. There's so many different uses for it. But uh, do you find that they still great?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

They still produce, you know, and I spend a lot of time educating people that barrel aging, you know, the extractives are only, you know, half of the game. Like certainly they're important, that color and those flavors, but there's a lot that's going on in a barrel that that that you can't trick just with extractives alone that just take time in a semi-porous container in order to develop that whiskey. Right. Um, and so people I think get a little bit distracted by the color and by the extractives and forget about all the other really important things.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Well, happen in it. You really you it's it's hard to take a bourbon a bourbon 25 years in a in a barrel, especially in Kentucky, because you're not gonna have anything left. One right there, because half of you know, almost all of it's gone. I mean, I've even heard one year they didn't release Happy 20 because when they emptied the barrels, there was nothing in it. But but it but so that that part is really hard to get the the now they're they're doing it now, they've kind of figured out that people really do want to drink 21-year-old knob creek or whatever. So obviously they're keeping them on the bottom floors or in caves or whatever to slow up that evaporation process. But but when it comes to single malts, I've always felt they they treat the barrel a little bit more like wine, a winery does. You know, they're there there's an aspect of it where you have a lot more control to it. You don't have to be putting it in these hot or cold, you know, absorbs or in and out kind of things. You kind of want to, you're looking to make a 21-year-old or a 25-year-old, you know, single malt that's that people really kind of accept that. And you have that kind of control when you're using a used barrel because it's you know, you know, now because there a lot of that flavor that comes out right away in the bourbon absorbed, you know, you've got that that secondary barrel that's gone. So it's you can get a nicer kind of more mellow kind of uh aspect, and then have a little bit more time to figure out when you want to bottle it too, correct? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

I mean, that is that is definitely that that can totally be part of it. But you know, the the American Synamol is being aged in the same climate, in the same kind of warehouse climate so that uh that bourbon is being aged in, because bourbon doesn't just have to come from Kentucky. Um and so what the commission and us as members of the commission, one of the things that we really that was really important to us was keeping those rules open so that they weren't. As restrictive as their banana is so that you could reuse those casts, so that you had options on the cast size, so that you could actually work not only with your climate, but also gives a lot more creativity to the brand and to the distiller to actually create and and curate those flavors that develop in the whiskey. Instead of being like really, really hemmed in and pigeonholed on the amount of uh flavor that you can actually explore with what's available to you. So there's a lot of American single malts that are still using, you know, strain of hands is built on one-time use heavy char American oak casks. There is a great portion of American single malts that are made in heavy char, first used, only once used American American white oak casks. But leaving that open for interpretation allows for a creativity. So that, you know, a you know, a brand like McCarthy's that started it all that's using both new and used medium toast organ oak that's reusing those casts three, four, five times, you know, what's first started out of necessity and why not, and kind of experimental. And now we know is an important part of a blend of the fingerprint of McCarthy's is some of those more fresh extractives blended with some barrels that have just um, you know, has been really been focusing more on the time component of what happens in a barrel. Um, and so that's really important too. Because then you're working with your climate is, I feel like one of the mainstays of American single malt producers and what actually provides that fingerprint on our whiskeys.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

So, what type of rick houses do you guys have? I mean, are you st are Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your question.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Wasn't interrupting.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

It's not the we're we're we started originally in Portland in Northwest Industrial, and there it was just a hair cooler cooler than we are here at the at the base of Mount Hood, and just a hair more damp than we are here at the base of Mount Hood, that we were a little bit more similar to Scotland, and that we were actually losing proof in the cast over time to the tune of like you know, half to 0.9 proof over over a year or over a year and a half. Uh, so not much, but a little bit. And now that we're at the foot of Mount Hood, we're a little bit drier, we're a little bit more warmer, our temperature extremes are just a little bit more, and so we're actually gaining like 1.2 proof a year. So it's a it's a little bit of a change. We don't feel like it's changed the flavor of the whiskey or it's something that we need to necessarily adapt or to adjust to, but we do have racked barrels, so they're on their sides.

Warehouse Climate And Proof Changes

SPEAKER_01 46:24

We're three or four high in a non-temperature controlled barrel or house. That's it. Really simple. Uh, we want to have the the change in temperature on a daily basis from night to day, but we also want those barrels to experience the temperature change in the seasons from winter to summer, and what that does to you know, essentially creating a pair of lungs in that barrel. So you're kind of expanding, contract, you're bringing that whiskey deeper into the wood grain in the summertime, you're squeezing that whiskey back through the wood grain and then during a contraction in the wintertime, and you're developing some of those flavoring flavors, and you're changing the shape of the angel share throughout that ebb and flow of the temperature change on a daily and yearly basis. That really is how the climate puts its fingerprint on the maturative process.

unknown 47:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Yeah, that uh every place that that that distills or or where you're at, the climates definitely affect what what the what how the whiskey comes out. There's you know where you guys are closer, you you're closer to the ocean than a lot of places in the Midwest or what and whatnot. Plus, you've got temper the temperature changes, but you're kind of what would you say, you do get some heat, but you're far enough far enough north that you're not getting the excessive heat that you would get.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

We get warm. Um, we, you know, there's usually a couple weeks where we, you know, the daytime temperatures are at 110 or maybe 112, and the nighttime temperatures stay at you know 90 or above. Last year it was a really I'm not complaining, I'm not complaining. It was a really mild summer, but also the summer went well into December. Like we had some trees that were almost starting to bud out in December, and I was like, no, sweet babies, go to sleep. It's not time yet. Um, and we and can you know, two-thirds of the country had a crazy excessive extreme winter where we essentially had a nothing burr here and our snow, we essentially just didn't get any snow. So a lot of our aquifers and stuff are gonna get real low this year because there just isn't a snowpack really to speak of. So, but yeah, no, it's pretty traditionally like growing up, you know, during harvest and stuff. Our wheat harvest was usually, you know, the two weeks after July 4th. And it was not uncommon to be harvesting in, you know, 112, 115 degree heat during the day. Um we don't have humidity though. So we're not, we're no, there's nowhere near enough corn around us to create that corn sweat that you guys are known for. So it's uh it's it's not anywhere near as humid over here, which doesn't use right.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Yeah, the the west is always that's one thing that I notice all the time when I go out west. Doesn't matter what part, it's always that my lips are getting dry. There's no doubt about it. But the people who live there, their lips are fine. It's just so we're literally people, yeah. So, anyways, all right, so talk about the six-year that I have right here.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

So the six-year was uh was finally we managed to make enough three-year to keep up with demand that we were able to hold on to barrels long enough to actually release an older age segment of McCarthy's. So uh in 2021, we released the six-year-old McCarthy's. You'll notice that proof is a little bit higher. We did bump it up to 100 proof once you know consumers were prepared to handle a whiskey of that higher strength. But honestly, you know, we did flavor trials on what proof it is best at for that particular um six-year, and we loved it at 100. We thought it was a really nice balance for drinking and meat, or if you want to have it on a little cute cube, that's totally fine. Um, I uh will unashamedly make old fashions and margaritas out of the six-year-old McCarthy's. It's really good. Um, for those of you that are like, what a margarita out of a six-year-old peted American single mall. I my answer is have you enjoyed a mezcal

The Six Year At 100 Proof

SPEAKER_01 50:18

margarita? Then you're gonna love McCarthy's margarita because it's a very similar earthy flavor profile, earthy, smoky plate flavor profile.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

I would say that when it comes to what you guys are doing with the peat, the peated aspect of it, and you are using peat from Scotland, correct?

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

You purchase that. I really think that the balance that you this is a definitely an introductory. If you're going, if you like, if you're going into scotches and what and you want to start working your way into peat, this is definitely what you single malt that you would want to start out with. It's it's not overdone. The peat I I like it, I love it at six-year and a hundred-proof. I mean, there's a definite sweetness, and then there's almost what would you say, a higher proof flavor that that's familiar to me. You know, it's it it's actually probably is drinking a little bit more than like a hundred-proof bourbon. And because of probably because of the peat and the little bit of pepper that's that exists there, that makes it a little bit. And as far as a scotch goes or or single malt goes, it's definitely got a little bit of bite. Where I always find that single malts are always trying to do the as to use a word that's not always allowed, it's smooth. That's it's it's uh it and I like to say it's easy, but this isn't this is this one is not that's not it it lets you know it's whiskey. I always find that single malts uh or single malt brands or scotch brands are always trying to make it not when it comes to the harshness or the the spice or the heat, they're they're always trying to minimize those the scotches and whatever are they try and minimize that where you know bourbons and rice are always trying, we've gotten to the point where they're trying to maximize it with flavor, right? But this definitely is got a nice overall mouthfeel of whiskey and then a single malt. So it's it's I it's definitely enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

I mean, when we've talked about like you know, what is what is the the the kernel at the heart of the McCarthy's brand? Like what is what is the you know the seed that that the brand grows from? What's the idea at the center? And really, you know, one of the reasons that McCarthy's, you know, was the best whiskey in the world for a couple of years in a row, and why we've won so many double golds and platinums and are talked so fondly of in media over the last you know 30 years, is the fact that McCarthy's is not just a splash that you put in a glass and don't think of. Like it's just like you're drinking, you're drinking the liquid in the glass because there's liquid in the glass. At the end of the day, like the McCarthy's brand is the fact that it is a whiskey to to that that even in the middle of a conversation, if somebody puts some McCarthy's in your glass and you take a sip of it, it is so full of flavor, it is so robust, it is so interesting that it will make you stop for a second and be like, oh dang, like that's that's okay, I like this, right? It's that it requires you to actually stop and appreciate what's in your glass instead of just like there's liquid in my glass, I guess I'm gonna have a sip of it. And to to me, like it's something that is actually it's it's big enough, it's bold enough, it's flavorsome enough that it to kind of stop you in your tracks and make you consider your dram. Like that that is McCarthy's to me.

SPEAKER_00 54:07

All right, so we did get a super chat. So he said he's curious what your oldest distilled spirit age statement is. And how rare how rare is it for a distiller to use their third batch age statement? I don't know what that means, but age stated. How rare is it for a distiller to taste their third batch age stated? I guess that doesn't make sense, but yeah, maybe I'll clarify.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

I will do my best to answer what I think that they're asking. Okay. First one is like, what's the oldest age statement that we have? Um, we did um so when we launched the six-year, the first thing we did before we even came out with the six-year label was we released a single

Oldest Releases And Sampling Barrels

SPEAKER_01 55:05

barrel of six year through Lost Lantern. And so recently, I know it was this last fall, Lost Lantern has again done that for us and released a 10-year-old McCarthy's through the Lost Lantern brand. So if you're unfamiliar with Lost Lantern, they they are shedding a light on American distilleries. That's why they're called Lost Lantern. And so the Adam and Nora travel the country visiting with distilleries, tasting their barrels, and like buying and offering up barrels of whiskey that maybe are just like a step above, a step outside, a step different of what you're used to out of that brand, but something that they definitely want to share with all of their consumers to share with the world and be like, hey, if you're interested in exploring American whiskey, like let us help you explore. Let us, you know, do that work for you, find those really cool small distilleries, and then through their distribution channels, make it available to like. I don't know if I'm ever gonna make it out to Nantucket, but they released a single barrel of Triple A distillery, the notch, um, in Nantucket that until then, until that release, you had to go to Nantucket to buy those bottles. So Lost Landern is their one, Adam and Nora are amazing people, their team are great, and it was a it was a privilege to release the next oldest McCarthy's the 10-year-old with them. And then I think maybe the rest of the question is like, how often are we tasting our barrels? Maybe we do, we don't have uh, we're not big enough to have like a scheduled blending team. Like I'm also part of the blending team, right? And so, you know, when I'm in the distillery, when we have time, it's like, hey, you know, it's been a bit since we checked in on certain batches, on certain barrels, on certain lots. And so we'll just kind of spend an afternoon check just checking in on things. So it's not scheduled, it's not scripted, it's not regimented, but you know, we're still definitely trying to make sure we check in on them and we're shepherding those barrels so that they're maturing what we want to eventually release.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

So, and and that is honestly what you just said, and how you go about that as far as the blending and when you do it is one of the one of the unique, what would you say, advantages to American single malt because of the fact that they are in the barrels that they're in. Now, if you're putting the if you were if you decided to put a batch in a four-char brand new oak barrel, you'd probably have to pay attention to that barrel the most out of all the barrels.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

But just out of curiosity, like there is a barrel, probably. If I was gonna guess, I'm gonna sit. Um, if I was gonna guess the most samples barrel that I have in the barrel room, the answer might surprise you. It is it's a barrel of McCarthy's that we put away. Um we had had at the time we had a gin distillery called Captive Spirits that makes a brand for us Big Gin. Uh the Big Gin still exists, the brand, but we're having that distilled at Ula Distillery up in Seattle now as a part of Hood River Distillers. But Big Gin has a peat barrel-aged version of itself. And we did for one time only, we sent one of our precious organok barrels up to Seattle to age some big gin. And then he brought it back to us once he pulled the gin out of it and they bottled and sold it. We put my hearties back in it.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Because actually it's really good. Like, and so that one is probably the most sampled barrel just because it's really interesting. It's a neat project, it's a neat thing to essentially be able to taste it as it matures and learn a lot about how those flavors play together. So for sure, like if we were to put a McCarthy's in a number four brand new American oak container, like our barrel, like that would be a very new McCarthy's experience for me. I would be tasting it probably every three or six months just to be like, what's doing now? I just said sure, can't be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 58:57

Yeah, yeah, you definitely, and then depending on the hot and the cold or whatever, and you wouldn't want it to get overly processed, put it that way, as far as too much, too much caramel, too much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you still, it's an American single malt. It's the it's just a little bit lighter, you know, it's it's over.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

I do love that this is the this is the idea that you have of American single malt, given that I know so many American single malt brands that are putting in new American oak heavy characters.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

No, no, but you say straight, but it's still a light, it but also how it looks and goes about it. It for me, single malts are always their mouthfeels, although they're complete and there's a nice oil. Put it this way single malts always have a mouthfeel to me where I can taste the viscosity is a much bigger part because of the flavors are subtler, okay? Just subtler. So you get some fruit flavors, it's always a little bit lighter, but then you can pick up that mouthfeel. Sometimes it's like an oily, buttery, you know, a buttery mouthfeel, or an you know, you pick that up. Whereas a lot of times with the bourbon, it's always like, you know, it's 124. There's the mouth, but but overall, the power of all the whiskey and the flavors that are happening do not, it's just a subtler ass expression of whiskey. Now, I'm not saying you can't take the malt and put it in there and and oh, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just I mean you can, but not a lot of people do it. I mean, stray hands. I've had stray hands. I mean, and it's a lot closer to, you know, like you said, to me, it's a lot closer to a bourbon than most single malts, but it's still barley, right? Yeah, I mean, it's the grain, it's it's the grain, right? It's part of it, you know. But, you know, and I do, I like um peat. I'm not a huge fan of big peat. I mean, if it has too much peat for me, I'm pretty much out. It blows my whole palate, and you know, and but this you've done some nice subtle things with the peat. And like I said, it's it would be a great introductory because some you know, some they always say you have to acquire to get to those, you know, higher peted Scottish single malts. You've gotta really acquire that taste. And I'm just like, most of the time, I'm not into trying to acquire that taste. Sure, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

I mean I'm I think I'm on the record as saying not every not everything in your glass has to be a challenge, right? Right to like hard bags. I've always loved McCarthy's. Um, I and but yeah, but we get that a lot that it's like kind of an on-ramp into that Pedin category. Like, yeah, the peat is definitely there, but like it is it's not overly earthy. It's not uh it's not really barny at all. Um, you know, there is a slight medicinal quality to it, but honestly, like that smoke character and leans almost a little bit more barbecue than it does like with like earthiness.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

And I pick up I pick up some red licorice. It'll be barbecue, but I pick up that red licorice, you know, that Twizzler flavor that which is it's I mean, it's enjoyable.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, and that's gonna be coming from the malt. Um, you know, you might find that there's some kind of like it's like caramelized apricots in there or like barbecued peaches or something like that. That's again, that's gonna be coming from that malt, that malt fermentation, and that peat and that smoke isn't hiding those things. You're so you're still having access to the richness of the grain characteristic, and it's complemented by like, you know, the vanillins and that kind of or the organ oak is known for it's like Madagascar vanilla, a little bit of orange peel, and some of those like richer baking spices and some fun like toasted hazelnuts. Um, and so you're you're getting all those, but you're still getting the fruitiness and a little bit of the floral, maybe some raspberry that kind of comes from that the actual malt character itself. And that that brininess that comes from the smoke, it just kind of adds like that little that like that extra brininess, like it's almost kind of like a little bit of salt on the edge of it that in my mind really brings all those flavors to life.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

And that's you've described why you should be doing what you're doing. Because you're able to you're able to articulate what exactly what's happening and what you're trying to, what your you know, what you guys are, what your goals are for what you want the people want people to taste, you know. And that's something that being a a mature distillery, you've kind of like have, I would say, like you said, you've figured out what you're trying to do, and you do it consist you're just doing that consistently with slight variations, you know. What and the variations can be weather, what how the what the weather is doing, you know, in in Oregon, or it can be in slight variations in your you're you're using the same grains, but every year grains are different, no matter what. No, there's no way to make it exactly the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

So I mean even the peat characteristic, you know, there's you know, Scotland's had to change how they uh peat smoke barley in the last you know five years because uh you know they've been experiencing a drought as well. And so they actually burned down a malting facility a few years ago and then had a fire in another one. And so uh it's because the peat is so dry that then it's just catching fire instead of smoldering. And so they've actually had to change how they're peat malting the barley. And for a few years, the peat, the PPMs on the peat that we were getting were not as high as we were traditionally used. And so I think that's also you know going to be fun to explore in future blends where you know you're you're pulling from different flavors to different casks and mirroring some of those like higher PPM things with the lower PPM. But I'm not worried because again, our their peak characteristic and the smoke characteristic of McCarthy's is so approachable. We're not we're not set, even though we're using a 100% heavily peated malt, the way that we're distilling it, the way that we're aging it, we're not trying to push those phenolic compounds. We're not trying to have you open the bottle and the first thing that you get is like, oh, this you know, I'm just getting fusel oils, maybe a diesel engine exhaust, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

I I referred I referred to the one hard bag I had to gun oil. I mean, it was just I mean, my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

As a farm kid, I I honestly like those are flavors like that. I understand that a lot of people would consider those as negative flavors.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

No, yeah. As a farm kid, Earthy, anytime you say earthy, I mean if you're gonna say earthy as a farm kid, you're you're in. Or there's a a slight odor that might come across uh during fertilizer time or that's not a good one. No, but I mean, but you were but earthy sometimes, there's a just a little bit of the whatever unearthy, but if you're on a farm, that's not something that's as off-putting as it might be to a city dweller. Sure. There's no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

You know, talking about McCarthy's, if I was to describe that that earthiness, you know, and kind of go one level deeper, it's often, I mean, this isn't just me, this is all also consumers selling me this. It's often compared to like old growth forest floor. So, like kind of dried leaves, a little mushrooms, but you also get some of that piney characteristics, some of those kind of higher, like minty meth like menthol kind of things that you would get from those pine needles kind of breaking down. So it's not just dirt, it's not necessarily farm dirt, it's like rich, alive, like forest.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

How about right? But how how about you basically when you try and burn, you've got a hot fire and you get that log at the bottom of the wood pile that's that's just still water soaked and it's got all the pine and the leaves down there, and you put it on and it starts to smoke. There, there you go. That's that's what you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

The smoke characteristic I usually describe as you're close enough to the campfire that you can hear your friends laughing, but you're far enough away that you can't tell who told the joke. Because the smoke characteristic, it's not hot smoke, it's it's cold smoke. It's smoke that it's it came off the fire, it went up, and then you know, the the the evening temperatures kind of cooled it off and brought it back down. It changes the characteristic of the smoke.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:00

You're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

I like you're shaking your head because you're like, wow, she's really full of shit, or if you're like No, no, you're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

It's just like I love so one of my favorite things is when people can express themselves. I've met a couple people that are amazing at expressing what they taste, you know, and how it, how they taste it, or and you're expressing you're doing a super job of expressing exactly what's in in the glass. And that's that's part of it. I mean, that's we people always ask me, well, what's your favorite whiskey? My usually it's like what was in my glass last night because I don't have I don't because I taste so many different whiskies, I'm always tasting whiskey, and you can't really have a favorite because then you'd be an alcoholic. Because it's just that simple. I can't, I I mean, there are some things I really like.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

I might pick that up. I I do I have a couple, you know, what's the difference between a nerd and a hipster? There's an also, you know, what's the difference between a horde and a collection? You know, the difference between a nerd and a hipster, a nerd wants to share culture with everybody because they're excited about it, or a her hipster wants to hoard culture for themselves and use it as a reason why they're better. And then the difference between a horde and a collection is a collection that has a display cabinet. That's the only difference. So I love that. I love that like you can't have a favorite whiskey because then you'd be an alcoholic.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Exactly. There's just like I just I'm always tasting and I gotta be conscious of it. There's no doubt. I mean, it's just kind of like you know, there's there's a couple, there's there's many times, you know, I would say during COVID, I probably was having uh at least a pour. I was using whiskey as medicine in my brain. So before I go to bed, I'd have a pour. So that was, but right now it's not that that's not kind of how it is. So there could, you know, I Tuesdays and Thursdays I'm gonna have, I'm gonna be tasting, I know that. And then, but as far as, you know, maybe once a month I go to an establishment where I know the bartender or whatever, and I might have a couple there, but it's just it's gotten down to the the point where, you know, people send them to me. I'm not gonna, I I I I sent out samples in case one of the other guys, one guy's in California and the other one just had his grandson. So he was at his daughter with and grandson. So that's why, but they all got samples, you know what I mean? I sent those out, but I always like to taste it before I go on. And I in honestly, there's been a couple distilleries. I don't ever want to have to tell people I'm not gonna like there's no blindsiding somebody on the Scotchy Bourbon Boys. If it's something that I feel is young or it's not just right there, because I've seen some of some distilleries early on, they produce this, and I'm not really happy, but as they keep going further, they really kind of get it and get their legs up. So it's not about ripping on them while they're trying to get their legs underneath them and wreck them. You know, a lot of people watch what we do. It's basically finding the people that are in their their realm and producing, you know, at good width whiskey. I mean, 15 years ago or or 30 years ago, it would be it's a different story for what's going on. You probably I I guarantee you you weren't expressing yourself quite as well as you do right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:31

So so yeah, definitely I've been adults how to drink alcohol for over 20 years. So I mean, I when you know, starting with the winery with my parents, the I tell people all the time I'm pretty much indestructible. Like you could say all kinds of terrible things about things that I'd make, and I'd say, I'm really sorry you have that experience, but I wouldn't it would be water off a duck's back because the number of people Oh, you can't make everybody happy, there's no such thing. But like we've made uh, you know, we made a chen blanc and a chardonnay, neither saw any kind of oak. There was no oak age, there was no oak saves, there was no oak chips, there was no anything. It was 100% stainless steel for these two wines that we made. And the number of times that I had people literally double over, like, and I have it like now that I'm you know nearing 40, I'm like an 18-year-old, like they're children, they're still children. Like when I see an 18-year-old something, I'm like, you're a child, like who there's humans that aren't allowed to drink alcohol? Like, what are you 12? Like fully grown

Taste Language And Drinking What You Like

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

adults that would look at a child serving them wine in a in a in a grocery store and double over and be like, oh my god, this is so over oaked. It's awful. Like, oh my god, I can't believe you're out here trying to sell this. And I'm like having to mind my P's and Q's the whole time, being like, I'm supposed to be respectful and just apologize that they don't like it, even though there's not been any wood anywhere near that wine the entire time. And I can sit here and list account after account of an account over my entire, you know, 16 years at Clear Creek where I have experienced similar things from consumers at tasting events. And then the answer is I'm really sorry that I disappointed you and you don't like it. I have a couple other things on the table that you might like, but happy to suggest some other attempts here at this event that you might find something that you like better so that you still have a really great time at this event. You know, that's I've there there is there is something to be said about learning how to be a little bit bulletproof.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:23

Oh, yeah, especially when you're dealing in whiskey. I mean, honestly, think about it. I yeah, some people just don't like American single malts. Okay, that's fine. It's just how it is. You don't like it. Some people don't like lobster. I don't know anybody who doesn't, but that's just how this works.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

You know, I will say I'm I'm at best indifferent about crab, uh, which is like apparently a crying shame considering that I live so close to Dungeon's crab territory here in Oregon. Uh so for sure, not everybody is into everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

No, it's just like I always tell there's and there's no right or wrong. I I'm sorry. It's like if you don't like something, don't drink it. It's just that simple. It's like you don't it's not because the Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:10

I'm not like precious about like the things that we make either. Like if you love the six-year-old McCarthy's with a splash of Shasta grape soda, I will open the can for you. I you know, we deserve to have nice things, you know, you don't have to drink things just because they're a challenge, just because you think that you're a person that needs to be seen drinking that thing. I want you to like what you have in your glass. And I love having McCarthys in my glass. So stoked when I see other people that really love it too.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:41

Yeah, and and that's just it. You I you can't make everybody happy because not everybody's gonna, there's you know, it's just not the way that the world works. And so when you're trying to make everybody, you should always try. But if it if you don't succeed, then you're just like, I mean, that's why whiskey, the whiskey industry is so phenomenal. You know, some people I learned early on, I I thought I didn't like ries. Okay. So I had some really bad ryes, and it just, it's just what, but I but probably the last 15 ryes I tried that people have given me, I like. I mean, it's just like there's a flavor in it I don't like, and they're not putting that flavor in there. So you have maybe you have to work. So, same thing. We do a lot of bourbon. I like most like almost every bourbon, even ones that people don't, other people don't like, I like. But excuse me, but when it comes to single malts with peat, they're they're out there that you're gonna like, but you gotta work at it. And it's actually quite fun. When you like all bourbons, that's not as much fun as liking finding the single malts that you like or finding the rise that you like, because that's a challenge and it's a little bit more in there, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:03

Yeah, and it's a learning process. You're learning about yourself, you're learning about the distilleries, what's out there. Like that's that's uh, you know, that that's the fun part of exploring a spirit, exploring the culture of spirit, and and and honestly, again, being the nerd that gets to share it with your friends, being like, oh my gosh, I just had this this whiskey. It's amazing. It tastes like this. You can find it in Oregon, blah, blah, blah. The master distiller is a female, rad, we love that. Let's try it, right? That's part of the exploration of any whiskey category. And certainly there's so many amazing things about American single mom. You know, McCarthy's being the first is really incredible. The fact that we're getting close to being 30 years on the shelf is amazing. Certainly, it's been an honor for my career to be a part of the brand. But again, you know, when you talk when you really talk about what the the whole point of the McCarthy's whiskey is, it's to stop you in your tracks for a second and and remind you that like what you're enjoying, what you're savoring is worth taking a second of, you know, and considering what it is. Um, and it it's not just it's not just a placeholder, it's a it's a part of the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

And it's really cool that Steve picked you right out of college, young, because when you consider yourself as a steward, that's a long stewardship. And that's kind of nice, you know what, you know, and that's one thing that I find like with a lot of brands, like the family brands, you know, when you're talking about the beams and you're talking about generation after generation, there's something to be said when you can pass your knowledge down of your Rick House. It's you know, you have it, you know where the stuff is, and you know how it ages. Because someone who just starts something, it's all experimentational to start off. But as the brand becomes, you know, a staple, it's no, it's not as much experimentation as it is familiarity to produce a quality product. And you know, when you know what's happening, I think that's one of the things with this boom that's been so great is that just people will build more rick houses, which means they're not as familiar with those rick houses as they were the ones that are 150 years old. You know, those are a lot of cool things that happen in the industry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:27

So I yeah, I I um, you know, when we talked, we started to bookend the conversation. We started before you went before you started recording talking about trends. I I, you know, brands like McCarthy's, you know, we're not gonna be able to keep up with uh, you know, something new and fun every quarter or every six months or even every year. You know, we started in 1998 with that wine label bottle. In 2021 was the first time we released anything that was new. We didn't start doing single barrels until 21-22, I believe. And we have a couple of shared casts. One was an LTO, the Olaroso is completely sold out. And the Pedro Homenez, we decided to keep as uh as a standard skew. So we essentially have four permanent SKU, single the single barrel label, which is black, the PX shared cast finish with a six-year, the six year, and the three year. But I would love that I love the idea of us getting back to a place where the a little less of the shotgun approach of the experimentation and a little bit

Experiments Releases And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

more appreciation for people that do the thing and do the thing right.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:29

Yeah, uh, it's just like when when I just like we said, in two when I got in in 2019 podcasting, there were a lot of people that were on there they were purists. They were like, that's finished finished bourbon is not bourbon. And and finished bourbon, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

But we don't need to have bourbons that are four different finishes.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:51

Yeah, but now we've gone through all the gamut of finished bourbon, and everybody people actually look at finished bourbon, uh, you know, they're just not as critical. They're looking for the next different thing. I mean, yeah, you know, Green River just put honey straight into it. I mean, I it's yeah, it's it's not a bourbon and whatever, and there's honey in it, but people are trying it and tasting it and seeing what, and that's what that's the great thing about. I think when you add those finishes, not that you know, it's it American single malt has an advantage over a lot of stuff because most of the experimentation that's happening in the bourbon industry where people have accepted it, and that's evolution, it's almost like a baby. Like we're just now that baby's now a toddler because you can put these finishes and people are accepting it. But Scotch is a grandpa, and and because they've done it all, they put it in every single kind of barrel, they've done it, and they put it in bourbon barrels, they put it in PX. And so American single malt isn't it, it's a little bit older when you look at it because you know single malts and what's happened to them, you get to be a part of that thousand-year history, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:15

And I like to think in this analogy, I'd like to think of American single malt as the as the funkal, as the fun uncle.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:22

Yeah, there you go, the funkal. Yeah, but that but but he's you know, the fun uncle's probably about it's like okay, it's he would be like 30, 31, 32, right? Yeah, yeah, not opposed to McCarthy's is is what is it?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

28.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:45

There you go. Yep. Yeah, so exactly. That's exactly what that is. Because of the fact that you like you like when you when you're finishing, I now do you have any of it finishing in bourbon casks? Have you purchased some bourbon?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:02

Um we have done that experiment. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:10

Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Um, I mean again, all of all of those experiments.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:16

There's so many experiments that we've had, you know, and we we've um um the uh with the whiskey live Discord server. We released uh a nearly seven-year-old, or no, I think it was maybe seven-year-old. Seven years old. Anyways, it's long since sold out, but it was a rum cask aged, so it wasn't finished. It was only aged in an ex-rum cask. So of course, that meant that it was at one point a bourbon cask. So that there was a bourbon ran that was stamped on the head of the barrel, and it was a heavy char American oak cask, but after it aged whatever bourbon that was on the head, it went a jumper too, and then we eventually uh had it here at the distillery, it was Casa Magdalena rum. Uh and so we got that at the distillery. We put a new make McCarthy's in it. So it was McCarthy's that had never seen any Oregon oak, no, no Garyana oak, and it was just age and a rum cast. Which is cool. I had a few fun things. We've released a few fun things like that. There's a few fun experiments marinating away in the other room. So um, you know, don't I I don't I don't say that I want people I say that I want people to focus on people that are doing it, doing it right and doing it consistently right, because it's just brutal as a small company to try to keep up with trends and try to expect that to be uh you know something that's gonna work in the long haul. But you know, yeah, absolutely experimenting with flavor and having a little bit of fun with it and kind of exploring things, but exploring things on a on a more patient time cycle, definitely something that we're still doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:48

So do this count. Do you release those as distillery-only releases? The the experimentation?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Um we have yet to establish a formal distillery-only release program. It's definitely something that I've been looking into. So you just kind of the best way that I can tell you, I don't know if you're mentioning the best way to figure out what we're doing and where you can find it is to keep an eye on the Instagram channel. I run the Instagram channel for McCarthy's. If anything fun comes out, it will land on the McCarthy's. Because as you know, as a content creator, uh if if if somebody hands you free content, you're gonna say yes. Yeah. No, oh, there's a fun release I can talk about. Yeah, let's talk about all that on the Instagram channel and send.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

All right. And and you don't have any fun just to announce right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:36

Just to announce right now. If you are in Oregon, um, I don't want to announce exactly what it is, but we do have a specialty one-off finish that we're doing of the six-year McCarthy's that will probably release maybe December, January, February that will be exclusively for Oregon. We're doing that in partnership with a few Oregon liquor stores here in the state. So it will be a really fun release. It's gonna be super delicious. But because we're doing that in partnership with those Oregon liquor stores, it will be an Oregon exclusive.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:10

Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:13

So keep on Intrigue account for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:16

And and we'll talk, we're we should finish up. And I have a question. What's your so a lot of times people watching, I like to bring them on after we stop recording the audio that you know, and and finish off for questions. Are you willing to stay stay on for some questions? And then no, look, these these guys are like regulars, and they're gonna stay, they're gonna try and stay on forever. But if you have to at one point, at any time you have to go, just say it's time for me to go and go. Yeah. I respect your time. I get I get you, yeah. Well, in people, so we I always and some people some people are open to it and other people's, you know, other people aren't. And but then like I said, just if you gotta go, just let them let uh let everybody know you gotta go. So I'm gonna I'm gonna finish this up, but first you're gonna tell everybody your Instagram channel and your website.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

Okay, well McCarthy's is a part of Hood River Distillers, but it's also a part, you know, it's it's it's a part of the story of Clear Creek Distillery. So uh Clear Creek Distillery initially launched it in 1998, and then Hood River Distillers bought both McCarthy's and Clear Creek Distillery in 2014. Hood River Distillers being working on their fourth generation of family ownership, founded in 1934 here in Hood River, Oregon. So the Instagram handles that are important to follow are Hood River Distillers, as they're our parent company now, as well as Clear Creek Distillery, which is you know the brand that focuses on all the greenies, fruit greenies and the pores from the Pacific Northwest. McCarthy's Whiskey, which is what we're here to talk about today, our American single mall. And then the other channel that I also put some content on. So you'll occasionally see some actors from the distillery on that channel, is our Trails End. It's it's Trails End is the Instagram handle, but it's our Trails End bourbon. It's a Kentucky bourbon that we do Pacific Northwest finishes on. And some of them have, you know, were inspired by our experience and being, you know, the producers of McCarthy. So four great channels to follow. If you're desperate to know how much of a nerd I am and keep track of me, my Instagram handle is at the Bartlemay. It is my personal Instagram, so you're gonna get what you get. Buyers beware. But I do sometimes put some fun distillery content in there. And I travel a lot for the brand, so I get to take you along on some of my master distiller adventures on there too. So thank you so much for having me on the show for all of your great questions. It I I know I love it when I don't when I had the opportunity to kind of stretch my legs and answer. Questions that a few people ask. So I do appreciate you taking the time to do a little research ahead of time so I get to hear a little bit more about another reason about what I love about the parties for creating colors.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:12

Well that's kind of how we do it. So we just like we like to get to know the people who make the whiskey. And I look forward to hopefully getting out there right around July next year, and we can definitely hook up, you know, as far as seeing each other in person, seeing what seeing the distillery, the area, and that my daughter, I think it would be great to for you to meet her. And I will definitely pass on pass on the information that you shared with us earlier. So all right, everybody. Thanks for joining us tonight. Everybody on Facebook know that I will be putting the link to the Zoom meeting. But at this point, we're gonna finish up the audio and remember www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things Scotchy Bourbon Boys. We've got Glenn Karen's in t-shirts, so check check out the website or just contact me directly. Facebook message me or mention uh comment on YouTube. And then also remember on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, X, and then we also on Apple, iHeart, and Spotify, and anywhere else that you listen to a podcast, we are there. Make whether you listen to us or watch us, make sure that you leave good feedback and become members. Leave super chats. That's always good on thank you, Kirk, for your super chat tonight.

Wrap Up Responsible Drinking And Links

SPEAKER_00 1:29:44

And always good on YouTube. And then also remember good bourbon equals good times and good friends. Thank you, Caitlin, for coming on tonight. Remember to drink responsibly, don't drink and drive, and live your life uncut and unfiltered. And AI is about to take us out.