How Honey Shaped Bourbon From Mead & Hot Toddies To Dark Arts

We trace how honey moved from ancient mead to American whiskey culture, then taste modern honey expressions to see what the hype gets right. We also get honest about the messy line between “finished” and “flavored” and why labels and proof matter as much as sweetness.

• honey as one of the earliest sweeteners in alcohol and why it pairs naturally with bourbon flavours like vanilla and caramel 
• the hot toddy as an 1800s remedy and how prohibition kept honey whiskey relevant 
• why local honey sources and honey styles can change aroma and mouthfeel 
• Dark Arts honey cask finish and what “finishing” is supposed to mean 
• Green River’s real honey approach and the debate over what counts as finished versus flavored 
• Starlight’s honey-barrel concept and how barrel character shows up in taste and finish 
• Jim Beam Honey as a honey liqueur style product and where it fits best 
• our Barrel Bottle Breakdown scoring for nose, body, taste, and finish plus the final winner 

Remember, we're www.scotchyburbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys. 
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If you're watching on YouTube, become a member or leave us super chats. 
Make sure that you drink responsibly. Don't drink and drive.

Honey in bourbon sounds like an easy win, until you taste a few side by side and realize you’re not always drinking the same “category” of whiskey. Tonight we dig into the history that made honey a natural whiskey partner long before modern cocktails, from ancient mead traditions to the 1800s hot toddy that families still treat like medicine. Along the way, we talk about why honey works so well with bourbon’s built-in notes of vanilla, caramel, brown sugar, toasted oak, and baking spice.

Then we get practical and pour three very different bottles, including a honey-cask finished blend that leans into “liquid gold” depth, a bottle that literally involves pouring real honey into bourbon, and a craft approach that uses honey-aged barrels to layer sweetness on top of serious barrel character. You’ll hear what shows up on the nose, where the honey actually lands on the palate, and how proof changes the entire experience from rich and integrated to straight-up dessert.

We also tackle the question bourbon fans keep arguing about: where does finishing end and flavoring begin, especially when honey’s viscosity makes barrels hard to truly “empty”? If you care about transparency, labeling, and whether “a hint of sweetness” is honest, you’ll want this one.

Subscribe for more bourbon deep-dives, share this with a friend who loves honey whiskey, and leave us a review with your take: is honey-finished bourbon a gateway pour or its own lane?

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If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

Sponsor Spotlight And Origins

SPEAKER_00 0:01

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Tonight’s Honey And Bourbon Plan

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Tonight, we are doing the honey thing, and I'm here, Tiny. Uh, I will be your host tonight. A couple people we we could have some someone drop in, maybe, maybe not. I didn't, I just threw it out there, but also uh I was hoping maybe CT had a chance, but everybody's busy. It's this it's we're getting into summertime. But what's gonna be happening in the next three straight weeks? It the the rest of June is a guest every that we are booked all the way through July, I believe second is the last Thursday, guest after guest after guest, and we've got the Macaulay Mittens 1776, his bottle here, and we've got his special Liberty, you know, 250th anniversary, and we're gonna have him as a on as a special guest on a special night, so that'll be kind of cool. So I am I'm looking forward to that to receive that bottle today. But we are going to be doing the the history of honey and its influence on bourbon tonight, and quite frankly, it's gonna be pretty cool. But remember, we're www.scotchyburbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys. We've got our Glen Karens and our t-shirts and everything, or you could just contact me direct, especially if you're on Facebook. Just contact me direct and we will take care of you. Also, remember we're on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and X, along with Apple, iHeart, Spotify, and anywhere else you can listen to a podcast. We're probably there. But remember, whether you watch us or listen to us, to leave us good feedback. If you're listening to us on like Apple, make sure you go to Apple, give us a five-star review. That really helps us out. Also, if you're watching on YouTube, become a member or leave us super chats. Super chats are awesome, they get read unless we have a guest. But even if we have a guest, I will call out that you did a super chat. But to read super chats with guests is a little bit tough because unless you ask a question for the guest, so that's one way to do the super chat. But you know, support us. Everything goes back into the podcast, whether it's buying bourbons, you know, or traveling and bringing you good content from the road. One of our favorite things to do is whiskey thieving. We go to all the different distilleries and thief right out of the barrel, put out a ton of shorts of us whiskey thieving the past couple months. We've been to Liberty Pole where we were thieving, we've been at Whiskey Thief where we're we've been thieving, and then also we were I want to say, oh, we were thieving at Stolen Wolf in Pennsylvania. So been around, do a lot of kind of those fun things, and you know, just make sure that you know you support us. That helps out immensely. Tonight we've got Kirk, and we got I saw Slay, we've got the plant man from the Cheesehead Plant Man, and then on YouTube, and then also we've got I saw Steve Steve, my friend Steve Pitzer, and then also Greg Schneider. There you go. We got Greg Schneider tonight. That's gonna be cool. He's gonna be coming up soon. Got Matt Lisen. So a bunch of people watching tonight. Good to say hi. I'm gonna start to get into this. I mean, the history we'll start off with the history. And you know, honey, honey has been a part, and it makes sense to be a part of bourbon from the beginning. Okay. The history of bourbon and honey is surprisingly intertwined and stretches back centuries. Honey was one of humanity's first sweeteners, and it naturally found its way into distilled spirits long before cocktails became popular. Honey before bourbon. Honey has been used in alcoholic beverages

Honey Before Bourbon And Mead

SPEAKER_00 6:10

for thousands of years. Ancient civilizations made mead, fermented honey wine, as far back as 7,000 to 9,000 years ago. Honey was prized because it was one of a few natural sweeteners available before refined sugar became common. Bourbon's early days. Honey and whiskey in the 1800s. By the mid-1800s, honey whiskey was commonly used as a home remedy. A mixture of whiskey, honey, lemon, and hot water was often prescribed for sore throats, colds, coughs, general ailments. This evolved into the classic hot toddy, one of the earliest whiskey cocktails, and still good for sore throats, colds, coughs, and general ailments. Roxy will ask me to make her a hot toddy when she's not feeling good, and she insists on making it with IW Harper 15 year. And I can't argue with the honey, lemon, and the mixture that I mix up, and it has been successful in the past. Myself, my remedy has nothing to do with honey and lemon. I will have a hot toddy with her from time to time. Mine is usually just the barrel strength uh bourbon sipping on it before I go to bed. The Hot Tottdy Connection. The Hot Tati became one of the most popular whiskey drinks in America during the 1800s. Traditional recipe, bourbon or whiskey, honey, hot water, lemon. It's simple. Many families consider it medicine rather than a cocktail. Then honey and prohibition. During prohibition, medicinal whiskey prescriptions became legal under certain circumstances. Honey continued to be used to mask the flavor of lower quality spirits and homemade moonshine than modern bourbon and honey. The modern bourbon and honey movement exploded in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Several brands launched dedicated honey whiskey expressions. Wild Turkey American honey, I don't have that tonight, but I do, and then Jack Daniels was Tennessee honey and Jim Beam honey, which we have right here represented. These products helped introduce whiskey to drinkers who found traditional bourbon too strong. Why honey works so well with bourbon? So honey works really well with bourbon because it naturally develops flavors that complement honey. Bourbon has flavors that complement honey: vanilla, caramel, brown sugar, toasted oak, baking spices. When honey is added, it amplifies these notes rather than competes with them. Honey and bourbon today. Today, craft distilleries often experiment with local wildflower honey, clover honey, orange blossom honey, buckwheat honey, and barrel-aged honey. Now, we've got an example of pretty much all of those. Some beekeepers even place hives near rick houses, claiming that the local environment influences the honey's character, creating unique pairings between local honey and local bourbon. Alright. So tonight I've got in the first introduction, and we are going to barrel bottle break this down. This one is, I'm gonna switch over here because this is very, it's gonna be kind of important. We will go with this. This is the dark arts. It is it is called Dark Arts. This was the New Orleans Bourbon Festival Thute Meal. And this is a blend of sweet and sour mash, straight bourbon, whiskey finished in a honey cask, and it's 108.66 proof, and it was the 19th bottle of the barrel. And so this one it says liquid gold on the side. Okay, so Macaulay, if you I don't I'm looking at the bottom, I it's let's see. Oh yeah. Now that is kind of cool. So there is that some so Macaulay found the most here. I'll do it again. You can kind of see it's got a there's a cloudy aspect to it, and then that there is gonna be some honey in there. Now, Macaulay went out and as he describes it, went out and found the best honey field. So let's just see. Crated in our house, savored in yours. The bot the barrel, the bottle in your hand holds more than just a spirit. It's alchemy, wood, fire, grain, and water, transmitted into liquid gold. Inspired by the alchemists of old, our master blender takes gold, good spirits and elevates them to extraordinary using equal parts, mastery, mastery, and belief in the unknown. Don't settle for ordinary, defy convention, and unleas your spirits. Now, this is Indiana and Kentucky, so it's a mixture. And then he doesn't so he went out and found like the best honey you could buy on the planet, and then he bought an awful lot of it, filled the barrels, dumped the barrels out, and then put the bourbon and the two different types of bourbon in there. As Greg said, Wild Turkey honey liqueurs came out many years before American honey because behind the scenes, not promoted, but very decadent. So that that's on an after dinner liqueur. Okay, so that makes sense. Now, this one, and I'm gonna put this in. I've had this and I've tasted this many times, and this is going in my glass, and tonight's gonna be fun. Because honestly, all even it the deliciousness of this, so if you look at it in the glass, you've got a little bit of the there's definitely the honeys in the bourbon. So I talked to Alan Bishop one time, and there's a thing called finishing. And when you finish whiskey, if you are what you're supposed to do if you finish, is you're supposed to take a used barrel, let's say it's wine, port wine or whatever, and it's supposed to be completely empty, and then probably let the let the barrel dry out a little bit. Some places like the four roses barrel that I that some things it'll be completely dry. And then what happens is the bourbon goes into the wood and pulls out the flavor for a finish. Now, some well, it's a wetter finish and you've got all the liquid out, but the wood's still not dry. It's wet and you'll bring out a little bit more of the wine. But then there's the people who leave some wine in there. Now, if you're leaving wine in there, now you're not finishing. You are now at one point, like four or five years ago, this was what initially, let's go six, seven years ago, finished bourbon was not considered. People got upset over finished bourbon because it wasn't bourbon, they wanted pure bourbon. And then, as that became accepted, then it was like they wanted finished bourbon, not flavored bourbon. But in this case, with the honey tonight, this is definitely a combination of pushing the finishing

Hot Toddies Prohibition And Honey

SPEAKER_00 15:10

with the flavoring. And but when you go out and buy $20,000 worth of honey, I think some of the honey should be left in there, especially if you found the best honey on the planet. It's just that simple. You should include it in the spirit. It's not, this is not bourbon. This is bourbon finished in honey barrels, which is fine. And I think what's cool about whiskey and bourbon these days is breaking the rules. You're not breaking the rules like it's not a legal. You're just you're breaking the the general guide of what you think should happen for certain guidelines. And I mean, if anything, rules, especially these type of rules, were made to be it. This isn't hurting anybody. The proof's the proof. It's not like they poured poison in here, they're pouring expense. There's expense of honey in here. So here goes. I've had this many times, and I'm gonna start off tonight. Cheers, everybody. It's pretty phenomenal. Oh wow. Are you home on? I don't think she's home. It's not time for her to be home yet. Plus it didn't go off on my watch or my I'll just leave it at that. I it'll be interesting to see if that just got recorded. Because I definitely heard that upstairs. It could be raining though. That could be what it is, because we're supposed to get thunderstorms tonight. All right, anyways, let's get back to not being freaked out. Yeah. All right, so the honey is delicious on this. So there's the bourbon's delicious. So this has like you can taste. You can taste the actual the bourbon and the honey. That is interesting. It's delicious. So we're gonna leave that because we're gonna break that down. Now this was the thing that just you know, we had this during New Orleans and Macaulay released it. It's a spectacular, what would you say? A spectacular expression. And then when I was at for Randy's birthday at Bardstown Bourbon Company, they were just releasing this honey finished bourbon from Green River. Now, in the past, one of the things honey was used for is if the and and flavoring of so let's just let's let's your wild turkey, your gym beam, your Bardstown Bourbon Company, and you produce massive amounts of barrels. And so when you're making your blends for your product, and you're there's gonna be some barrels that are gonna be a little bitter. There, it's not nothing wrong with the distillate, but they're there's great barrels that are sweet and whatnot, and then there's other barrels that are and then there's that are that you use for for just let's just say Jim Beam or the the at Green River, just the Green River stuff to make your blends, the blending of the bourbon to make the batches,

Why Honey Works With Bourbon

SPEAKER_00 19:50

but then there's gonna be barrels that aren't the greatest, they're bitter, and you could you used enough of them, but they're you're gonna have, and what do you do with those? Well, one of the things you can do is flavor that whiskey. Uh, and people it used to be a bad thing because the whiskey they would do anything because maybe the whiskey was bad, it wasn't the greatest. Now, I've not tried the Green River. Now, the way Green River and this was put to us at Bardstown did this honey, it and and I'm sure it was in the mix, in but they sourced honey from a local a local from local bee bees, honey, you know, they sourced honey from local oh my gosh, why am I having a problem? I'm having a problem with that one. The they from the local beekeepers, and they basically put the bourbon, they had their six the four to six-year-old bourbon, and then they poured the honey in. So the honey is poured right into the bourbon, and which is now I mean it says finished, but that's not finished, that's pretty much, in my opinion, flavored. But pouring pure honey from local farmers or beekeepers from from the local beekeepers isn't the worst thing you could do to bourbon. So here we go for the first on the nose. It's a little bit. I don't get uh I'm getting the bourbon, and I get a little bit of apple. I'm not getting the honey and the caramel. A little ethanol. The proof on this, I believe, is ninety two. Alright. Let's take a look. give this I'll give this the and I'll give you also I'll give you the beekeeper there we go all right okay so quick I will play I'm gonna play the the animation here you see the the cool thing back here and I'm gonna play the animation let's go let's push it all right here we go look at that the the i it just like I love AI and then the the honey just drips off the bottles I'm gonna be very I'm very happy with that one look at look watch the bee if you could see that the bee kind of jumps up flies away the everything disappears and then you've got the honey dripping i it's just like that's the best ai yet all right so let's uh I I I need it's like it's amazing how much my eyes have gone so it says to create green river honey we took real bourbon and poured real honey straight into the barrel then let time do what time does best that's it the shortcuts no artificial flavors no coloring no fancy story just four years old Kentucky bourbon and locally sourced honey coming together the right way real bourbon real honey real good so they just poured the honey into the barrel and this is what we got now on the nose I don't smell I I I mean how much so greg says he's had the starlight honey which is very good and this barrel I'll give you the I'll give you the story on that one when I get to it that's interesting a little bit definitely the lower proof comes through it's not bad I mean for what it is I mean this is 20 bucks I think this is 20 bucks a bottle so I mean and I mean it's 20 a bottle and let's see what the proof is again I didn't tell you what the proof is here it is oh yep it was 92 proof real bourbon real honey finished bourbon whiskey honey finished bourbon whiskey I do not okay uh Greg you could you could come out there but pouring honey into the barrel and then letting it sit in there and then pouring it into the bottle I mean I that's not finished I mean Macaulay has he's basically putting the honey in the barrel and maybe the honey's wet in the barrel once he dumps the honey out he's basically then aging the bourbon into that barrel but he's not dumping the butt the honey straight into the barrel I don't think that's a finish that's more like it's there's no artificial coloring but technically would honey color the bourbon well that would be natural coloring I guess all right so the third one is the starlight now this is the oh q starlight and this is this is really cool because this you couldn't say what it was but I was on this pick they took they got barrels from four roses which is crazy and they put honey in them and then barrel aged is that really no okay then they barrel aged the honey in the four roses barrels dumped that out and put starlight into those four roses honey barrels and this is what came out now when I was on the pick they had like five or six of them and I think the state bought all of them because we tasted it out of the barrel and this was amazing out of the barrel I mean honestly and I think it's probably I one thing about Macaulay's is he's got the Indiana the straight the sweet mash and the sour mash in a blend and then into the the honey barrel and picks up the honey flavor so I'm gonna these are damn close both of them little bit more crafty on this one but the flavor that crafty flavor with the honey mix is some really good good good whiskey now this is the honey liqueur aspect of Jim Bean and I've I've had this bottle for a while I've never opened it okay let's open it uh uh yes do I have there is a place to open it or you just it's a twist here we go and I'm not gonna like I said I'm not gonna rip on it that's for sure we'll put a little one out here this well this is a lot different than what that was because this is like a it's a honey liqueur then mixed and I will explain it to everybody after I pour a little bit now once again now if you look at the difference in color of all three of these there's not I should this one really I think Macaulay's I can actually see the honey on the bottom it's like go to the go back in that is crazy all right see if I could see the honey come out of that nope you cannot see the honey come off of that can you see the honey come off of there no so Macaulay's really got what you really need to be I mean honestly that is cool going on there. Now let's get the right glasses on straight honey which is very good all right here we go the Starlight I'll first read the Starlight one which I didn't signature chart American opinion flagship bourbon family owned starlight eh it does characteristic flavors of the flag all right here we go this bourbon is then finished in X bourbon barrels aged with fresh honey from the farm and it was like I said it was four roses barrels the sweet floral notes all the honey complemented the characteristic flavors of our flagship bourbon and when we were tasting straight from the barrel we didn't I did not realize that it was the honey barrels. Now the the Jim Beam one it just it's sweet delicious honey liqueur with Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey so it's not honey liqueur it's mixed with honey liqueur so it's a different way of doing honey because making that honey liqueur they used real honey so now this one god that's bad that is flavored whiskey now okay this cannot be the proof on this is a it's got to be 30 something let's see just see what it is so what I used to do 32.5 okay so it's 64 so it's it's it's really I don't know does that have a honey I want to say I gotta think about that there we go all right so thinking about the honey that is interesting that is that is out of there's no bourbon involved with the with the the gym beam honey it is dominated by the honey liqueur and the proof allows the sugar to come through a lot more so unfortunately so Greg thinks unfortunately the government TTP has totally relaxed on our industry strict regulations basically tell

Dark Arts Honey Cask Breakdown

SPEAKER_00 31:30

the TRB what you there we go it's good to know what you want to do and they approve it it's so sad how things have evolved point to fact brown sugar bourbon is a flavored whiskey by category but how can they legally call it bourbon I think Greg I don't know if that's honestly the bourbon aspect I think they could do it because we are the bourbon people are educated enough now I think a while back that people didn't understand it the way they do now so the average person who's not a bourbon drinker might think and have problems with this but that person the average person let me make sure that's working it is the average person if you're not a bourbon drinker you're gonna like the gym beam I mean it's it's delicious but it's basically how can they say gym so gym beam honey this is this is the bottle right there so it says gym beam so in my opinion if you think it if you think of bourbon and you're just the regular person you think this might be bourbon with with some sort of I mean there's no let me see if on the shelf a a hint of sweetness it's ridiculous that that's a okay so one the most ridiculous statement on this is a hint of sweetness real honey liqueur infused with Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey but this this does not say honey liqueur liqueur to me it tells me it's bourbon with honey so the marketing there it's although that's a flavored whiskey at and it's 64 you know 32% and 64 proof and it says a hint of sweetness this is all sweetness it's not in the same category of these three so we're gonna put it out I'm not saying that's not good. I mean it does all right the way I use why that's there is that I like to when we soak the pecans for our conduct for our bourbon balls and when you drain the bourbon that the pecans are soaking in the pecans add a flavor that's a little bitter and if you add gym beam honey or you add gym beam vanilla to that it really produces a really good tasting I I call it a liqueur but it's I thought that it would be a lower proof because you're adding the 30 whatever but what's left over in those from the from the pecans is a much higher proof. The pecans don't absorb the alcohol as much as they absorb the flavor and the moisture and what's left over so you can get really in trouble with what what I make there. So with that said all right so we're gonna do a barrel bottle breakdown of these three right here and we're gonna come up with a a winner. So here we go so our barrel bottle breakdown scale is based off of four categories nose taste but nose body taste and finish for the nose and the body it you can give it up to a four knocks on the barrel. For the taste and the finish you can give up to five knocks on the barrel. Now those knocks will determine the score but if something's exceptional a category is exceptional you can give it a but up up which would be a fifth knock on the barrel but only for one category so we've got the three right here in order that would be the starlight this would be the green river and this would be the dark arts so we're gonna start and I will look at getting that going all right so let's go on the dark arts nose we're gonna do nose straight across you definitely pick up a little bit of honey oh god right there all right the honey the vanilla up at three o'clock and the side the side of the glass has got honey on it oh god that's really good all right so now we go to the green river the ethanol's gone away but I'm still having I'm picking up bourbon notes but I don't pick up any of the honey and it's just bourbon like oak a little green apple a little leather a little character we can give it four so the dark arts because and we are this is based off of honey there's a oh god right there at I would say honestly that I give it a four and a butt up up because the honey that and that fantastic honey that Macaulay's used that nose the uh at six o'clock the nose is a three but at four o'clock at three o'clock it goes in the glen it goes to that a five all right so once again I am gonna give this nose because it it's just it from a from the honey standpoint it's a two a four and the nose I pull out the honey and the bourbon and it's a mix so this pulls a three for me all right so we're gonna do this one right after another That's not fair wow out of four on the body Macaulay's gonna pull a three out of four eight which gives him eight out of eight and then this which got a three the body on this one pulls a four on the starlight

Finishing Versus Flavoring Debate

SPEAKER_00 40:21

and the body on the green river pulls a three now in my opinion here comes the seriously the most important part of what we're doing and let's see I mean because these are honey infused all right Greg Greg's calling me out for saying what I said as BS turned to milky toast bath I'm not that it just like I'm gonna do you want me to say I'm not saying that on a podcast Greg I'm just I'll give you that you say what I said with BS on the request but does the industry regulate it are they gonna I don't know I think the consumer's more intelligent enough that we won't if if if the distillery is pulling something off and that it's bad what they're doing we're educated enough to not let them get away with it I don't know but as far as what you're saying the regulations as well try and say this the BATF would never allow this our government regulations have turned to milky toed blanks who cave in for what requesters want. So but I really believe that that I don't know if that hurts us in the fact that the people who keep and abide to the regulations and keep towards the pure attract the educated bourbon drinker. Like you can't fool that but at the same time you know that's a discussion that's a discussion for another podcast which I should have you on for all right so anyways let's so we just did the body so we are at eight seven five so far so far. So let's go back to taste which I think is very important but you know each one of these three have done things in a way that's a little bit different in how they dealt with it and let's go to the taste so one of the things that's pulling off after a few minutes in this glass With Macaulay's. There's a it pulls out there's a honey and then it pulls out chocolate. Like a like honey milk dud. I can describe the taste. Where the four the the green river. It's honey and bourbon and honey and bourbon straight across. The honey's there. Now the quality of the honey are c this is a little different and a little sweeter. And that is just straight across all honey. Now the the starlight for the taste. There's a charred oak taste. I don't know how long this I mean Anne was there too at this pick. And this starlight was in a four roses barrel, and they had put honey in the four roses barrel, bourbonaged it, and then they put their bourbon in it, and this is what came out of it. And there is an aspect of a dusty from the standpoint of the bourbon and then the starlight bourbon and the honey. This one drinks. So I need to know the proof on this. So we're gonna have to take a look real quick. I might need these. So let's see what the proof is on this starlight 115.7. So it is drinking compared to Macaulay's 108.66. It's drinking a little bit more barrel proof, but there's a char to it and whatever. So if you're talking bourbon, and we could give this taste, I'm gonna give the taste of the starlight. The starlight hits, it's a five. I mean, out of the barrel, it was fantastic. And then out of five, this honestly, the green river gets a four. And so what makes the starlight is the bourbon with the four roses barrel, that with the honey is a five, and the bourbon is the five. What makes Macaulay's a five is the honey. The honey takes it to a level so this honey that he sought out you can taste. And it I would love Macaulay to taste the actual honey because it probably you found the best honey. Anne says honey and maple together. Um, we all love it, it's flavored because there's a certain amount, but but we're talking Green River just pours the honey in, they say it, and then Macaulay might leave some of that honey because I would do that, and this for Roses barrel, I have no idea, but I know the day we were tasting it was by far the best thing we ever tasted. But with uh with Greg says, transparency, the T the TRB has approved labels. I mean, honestly, the the this label here, I mean, wait, wait, wait. This label here, this label here is crazy. When it says at the top, we'll get this right. A hint of sweetness. I don't know how you get that approved. That's that is way, it's right up here, right at the top. It says it a hint of sweetness. That's a lie. That is the s that is like a flavored bourbon of sweetness level of mass. If I was to put that on a bourbon, uh bourbon label, I mean, compared to Jim Beam, so Jim Beam, when you when you drink it, might have like the whiskey might have you can get essence of some sweetness of like two to three percent. And when you're sitting there drinking the Jim Beam honey, it's at 80%.

Starlight And Jim Beam Honey Compared

SPEAKER_00 50:10

That's not a hint. So, yes, I think, but we all know Jim Beam honey is the these are flavored bourbons. I mean, even in Fred Noah's book, he he he talks about that, but there's a place for flavored bourbons. I mean, it's what has to happen to stock and inventory where Starlight, a craft distillery, and then Macaulay, a true blending artist, are using are using it in a way that honey should be used, and then Green River, although they're they're pulling so now let's just see what happens on the finish. You know, Green River, they poured it straight in, and quite frankly, I think they as far as taste goes, kind of pulled it off for twenty dollars a bottle. I mean, I'm not gonna complain about that at all. It's not it's not bourbon. I mean, they poured honey in it, it's flavored bourbon, honey flavored bourbon. I mean, it's raw honey, it's not like they put flavoring in where Jim Beam's using liqueur, which is a different a whole different thing. All right, so let's go. We'll finish off. So, how does this finish? I mean, this this is a special. Finish is medium. The honey's there, but so is the char of that original barrel.

unknown 52:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

I will agree with you, Greg. I had this discussion. You and Alan are are on the same plane. I mentioned that he had a whole one piece at a time distilling institute on cheating. Leaving, like for instance, leaving if you do a honey barrel or a maple syrup barrel, how much I mean, how those are sticky substances, you can't drain those barrels, so their finishing aspect are extremely different unless you let them dry up. You evaporate the moisture over 15 years, leave the barrel, just let it dry out, then rehydrate it and put it in. That's how you could get a finishing aspect of it. But when you're talking about honey and maple syrup, that's a whole different story. But for instance, this is called finished whiskey for Green River and on the back of the label, and this is something that's on the internet right now. Is how is this finished bourbon when they'd say they just pour the honey straight into the barrel? So I agree. Is it okay? You say, and that's what that's one of the things that we talked about. Flavored whiskey, not flavored bourbon, that's a violation of law. Why is that an actual law of where you could get arrested? I get what transparency is, I get what, but at the same time, when you have wine, it's a lot less the viscosity of wine is watery. The viscosity of maple syrup and honey are completely different things. You can't even come close to draining the honey out of a barrel or a maple syrup barrel, especially when you have a bunghole in the middle. I mean, it's hard enough to drain my gasoline, my five-gallon gasoline plastic container of what I, you know, gasoline tank that I use to fill up my lawnmower. There's always gasoline in there left over. I mean, but just imagine trying to get honey or maple syrup out. So, yes, I agree. So, all I can say is yes, there are and has have always been pushing the rules and the pushing the envelope. Everybody wants to do that. All right, so I'm gonna need a little bit more of Macaulay's to get the finish so we can finish. So yes, I agree, Greg, and this is an awesome conversation. I wish Greg was like just on because oh, he's gonna be on soon. We are going we we are gonna be doing a four branches podcast before the 250th, on the 250th. I can't wait for that. But he says it can be bourbon finished in a honey, wine, beer, cognac, sherry, barrel, etc. Yes, but a cognac, a beer, a wine, a sherry can be drained completely, and then some of them can be left with the butt with the bunghole open, and you can dry it out to some extent, but then then you can have it to be wet where there's a little bit left. But with honey and maple syrup, I don't think you can drain it. So that's the thing, but I will say the two Macaulay and Starlight, they they Starlight took their own honey, they have their own beehives and beekeepers, and they they put their own honey in that four roses barrel. But when you drain it, you only can get so much out. The rest is stuck in there. It's a lot different than a sherry, beer, or cognac finish because those you can get the liquid out pretty, you can get a good amount of the liquid, and it doesn't stick to the sides, it absorbs into the wood. But when you put it into a honey or a maple syrup barrel, you're gonna put a certain amount of honey and maple syrup in it, but then you got Green River completely, and it does say finished honey, finished bourbon whiskey in okay, once again, I don't even think they're not even they don't even have honey barrels. This is it. Real bourbon, real honey, and then on the back, they say they pour the honey in. So that is completely different than emptying the honey barrel, emptying the maple syrup barrel, and then pouring the bourbon in. They actually take the bourbon and put the honey in there. So, yes, you are right, and hubers are great guys, and so is Macaulay. They this is these two things are phenomenal, and I think all right, so let's go off the finish. God, the honey on that, and just Greg, watch this. The the honey drips. There's that when I did this, it was drip, it's still dripping. Bourbon wouldn't do that. Whereas if you get the other ones, they're not quite the same. They just basically it's there's no it it's it's so there's a little there's a little bit more of the bourbon separating, and if you look at Macaulay's, it's it's got the the definitely the the honey's in there. Whereas if you look at this one with the four roses, it's it's clair. So there's a little bit more honey in Macaulay's, but he wasn't adding the honey, he was still finishing it. But Macaulay's finishes with the honey. Now, um, so in other words, somebody's on the internet. Great. All right, did we lock up or is it just me? We'll reload. Darling, I locked up. I locked up. Is Alice on her on her on her thing? Just for a bit, I'm almost done. My granddaughter just came home. Okay, thank you. All right, so Macaulay on the finish. I though the honey's fantastic. The finish pulls off a five. All right. Now I'm trying to pull this off, okay. On on the the starlight the there's a bourbon aspect there. I'm gonna say the it finishes good, but it's it's not a five. It's a it's a four. Delicious. And now we'll go to the Green River. Green River finishes good. Straight across. It's long. And for that proof, I'm gonna go with a four. All right, so I could rely on Walker for this, but I believe on the nose I gave that a four five for st for Macaulay. I gave four and three, and then body I gave four, four, two, and then taste. I believe I gave five five four and then finish four nope. Five, five, four. All right. So Macaulay with his honey, I really believe the quality of honey is what did it. It's a nineteen, and and eighteen is for Starlight, and thirteen is for Green River. Now, an eight is average. All three of them have delivered, in my opinion. Green River at 13 for $20. I mean, there's no Macaulay's well worth every single cent. Let's see what's happening here. I will try and reload to see if I'm doing any better. Oh. It's all right. I'm gonna hit this. Alright. Did we lose hold on? I'm gonna hit this. I hope I didn't lose you guys. No, hahaha. Yes. So, Greg, so we pulled off a good score for Macaulay. I don't usually get the but up up and the what you call it. Macaulay, when it comes to this, and and he's been on here and he's described what he did before we got it. And this is a single barrel out of New Orleans Bourbon Festival. So if you see this on, I mean, he's done it and he intends to keep using he intends to keep using the barrels as he goes forward, and it's a smart, it's a smart move. I will highly suggest this, but I would what this this was a special thing coming out. I mean, we scored 18 out of 18, a 19 out of 18. So what does here it is? The relationship between honey and bourbon may actually predate many of bourbon's most famous cocktails. Long before the old-fashioned or Manhattan became popular, Americans were mixing whiskey and honey together. It's both a drink and a medicine. Is honey whiskey a gateway

Scores Winner And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

into bourbon, or is it a completely separate category from traditional bourbon? I it's definitely a traditional bourbon. I mean, you can't compare these to traditional bourbons because of the sweetness. I mean, the definition of honey finished is you are sweetening the bourbon. Honey is an actual version of a sugar, right? So I mean that's what we're looking at. So I mean this category is a great category for taste. I I think honey and bourbon are there's a reason why everybody's doing honey and bourbon. So I I mean the reason is is because they mix together very well, as we saw tonight. Even to the point of the honey liqueur, I wish I was gonna go get my I look for my wife's American honey, and I was gonna thinking of getting it, but I figured four was enough to uh it's just like I can't become completely unsober on the podcast, so there you go. There's the category of Jim Beam honey or American honey is a different category than what we were doing because these were finished, and I believe Green River successfully did whatever they were trying to do with this whiskey or bourbon. So there you go. All right, everybody. That's gonna be it for the audio part of the podcast. But hang on, everybody, because I will send out an invite to join us afterwards. And remember www.scotchybourbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys. Remember to follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and X, along with listen to us on Apple, iHeart and Spotify. Make sure that you leave us good feedback wherever you're listening to us. Join in, do super chats on YouTube, check us out on Facebook. We are everywhere and doing things. Look forward to coming up podcasts. The rest of June is booked all the way to July 4th. To get Macaulay in, we're gonna do a special insert podcast sometime during the week. So one of the weeks going forward, we'll have three instead of two podcasts. It'll be a special podcast. We've already got Greg Schneider coming in to do the four branches 250th anniversary. I have Macaulay's 250th anniversary bottle right here. He should be coming in to do that. It's a I mean, we're talking about America's 250th anniversary and and birthday. It's just like I remember the 200th. I was in seventh grade. The kids in my social studies class were throwing spitballs at the teacher. I mean, that's where I was at the 200th. So the 250 is kind of a special thing. We are going to be celebrating that hard as we go through that and then a little bit after. But bourbon, the bourbon industry really is covering it fantastically this year. And look forward to what we're doing on the podcast. But there will be a guest every single Tuesday and Thursday for the rest of the month. I'm excited about this. I mean, there's Turner Wathen, Greg Greg, oh my gosh, Keatley from Larkin, that would and Greg Schneider from Four Branches. And he's doing other great things. It's good to see you back out there. And then so, you know, keep checking out the podcast. Remember, we're the Scotchy Bourbon Boys, and good bourbon equals good friends and good times. Make sure that you drink responsibly. Don't drink and drive. Someone asked me what it was to drink responsibly. Make sure if you're going to indulge in something on a little bit more than you should, that you stay home. And drinking responsibly is making sure that you're keeping your alcohol consumption to a legal limit so that you don't endanger other people's lives. That is drinking responsibly. And then make sure that you live your life uncut and unfiltered, and AI will take us out.