How Ed Bley Builds Rising Tide Spirits From Barrel Picks Plus Hurry His Double Brand Rye Release

One great bourbon story can change your whole drinking life, and Ed Blake’s starts with a bottle he avoided for years. After a bad early run-in with bourbon, he returns to it later through a Pappy Van Winkle 15 and suddenly the rabbit hole opens. From there, we follow the real path from enthusiast to trusted palate: learning how to taste, learning how to talk about flavour, and learning how to help other people find what they actually like. 

Ed (Rising Tide Spirits) shares how barrel picks and community feedback sharpened his selection skills, including the practical reality of tasting barrels in winter, when whiskey can show harsher edges before it warms up. We also get into what it’s like building brands as a non-distiller producer, how Old Stubborn came to life through a strong distillery relationship, and why he’s committed to small production and high quality instead of chasing shelf space. 

Then we go deep on rye whiskey, especially MGP rye. We unpack the dill pickle note that turns some drinkers off, how fermentation timing can influence it, and why longer aging often brings more caramel sweetness, richer oak, and a smoother balance. If you’re curious about Old Swagger, Old Stubborn, premium bourbon packaging, or what separates a hype bottle from a genuinely great pour, you’ll leave with a clearer buying compass and a better vocabulary for your own palate. 

Subscribe for more whiskey conversations, share this with a rye or bourbon friend, and leave us a review with the best bottle you’ve had this year. What tasting note instantly makes you want another sip?

We sit down with Ed Blake of Rising Tide Spirits and trace the real steps from bourbon fan to respected barrel picker and brand builder. We dig into how he sources and blends Old Stubborn and Old Swagger, why his packaging is part of the experience, and what he’s learning from rye whiskey as the market shifts.  
• Ed’s early bourbon misfire and the moment Pappy brings him back  
• Building a whiskey community and learning through shared pours  
• The liquor store “help a shopper” moment that turns into a job  
• How private barrel picks create trust and demand  
• Sourcing as an NDP and why winter barrel samples can mislead  
• Designing premium packaging that matches premium whiskey  
• Staying small by choice while releases sell out fast  
• Rye whiskey education, MGP dill notes, and how age softens them  
• Barrel aging plans in Kentucky and a teased higher-aged release  

Remember, we're the Scotchy Bourbon Boys, www.scotchyburbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys. Remember, you can get t-shirts, Glenn Karen's. Contact me direct for those. Whether you listen to us or you watch us, make sure you leave us good feedback.  

If You Have Gohsts

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:47

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SPEAKER_02 2:56

Tiny here tonight with a special guest. We're welcoming back Ed Blake from Rising Tide Spirits. I have, look at this. I've got your hat. There you go. Yeah. And then also the blender of old stubborn and old swagger. And tonight, welcome Ed. Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. It's good to be back. It's great. Just uh one of the things that I always it's kind of like our our relationship as far as w how we when we met and everything and all the stuff that we've done through has been very

Welcoming Ed Blake Back

SPEAKER_02 3:42

unique. One, I just want to say I appreciate now. Super Nash was supposed to be on tonight, but he got stuck in North Carolina with a job and wasn't able to get back, and he wants to say sorry for not being able to make it. And I think CT, he's off doing some whiskey, he's got a whiskey event, whether it's a dinner and a tasting. So I was like, okay, we're doing this again. Me and Anna are doing this again together. And so, but Super Nash did want to say how much he loves what you're doing with your brands, and he doesn't, you know, he's happy. I did get some samples out to him, and he was telling me how fantastic the rides were. So I just wanted to throw that out for you.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

I'm sorry they couldn't make it.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

Well, I wanted him to. Well, I'm here, so that's that's a good thing, right? But I will have to say that, you know, we set this up, and you the one you just are so good to the podcast. All of a sudden I I got this box, and I guess happens to me quite often where I get a box of something, and but to open it and have the three tubes and everything in it, I want to thank you because being able to taste your whiskey and your your rice and your bourbons has been a privilege. So I just wanted to say that. You do a fantastic job. People have I you get it getting out the word. I've I've kind of gone over it, but you know, just really quick, go through your story, how you got into it. Because, you know, for the people listening for the first time and you know, seeing you for the first time, they want to know because your story is unique.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

When I was uh when I was much very green uh to bourbon in general, well, first and foremost, I started drinking bourbon when I was a little under the age of 21 and had a bad experience with Jim Beam white label and stayed away from bourbon until I was almost 35. Because of that experience, I kept thinking they were all gonna do me the same way that that Jim Beam had done. And you know, I'm sure we've all had those college experiences or youth experiences drinking where something has gotten us the wrong way, and we're like, ooh, you know. And so a buddy of mine kept trying to get me to try bourbon, and he was really fresh into the collecting scene. And this was gosh, 2012, maybe I'm not even sure. It may have been before that. He was really green into the bourbon scene, and he said, You need to try this Pappy Van Winkle. And I'm like, okay, what's that? I never

From Bad Beam To Pappy

SPEAKER_03 6:12

heard of it, right? And he had a 2009 Pappy Van Winkle 15 year there, of course, stencil Weller. So I didn't know anything at all about bourbon. He had me a Glenn Carey with a glass, uh, you know, just a little bit in there, and I smelled it, and it was fantastic. I knew right away I liked it a lot. And the minute I smelled it, it just smelled so amazing. That stencil Weller recipe is just unbelievable. Uh the match they did and what they produced down there is just mind-boggling. Um, but I tried it and I fell right back in love with it. And when I'm the type of person that when I get into something, I jump both feet first in and I obsessed on it almost compulsively. So I started learning as much as I could about the industry, about the bottles and collecting the bottles and having fun with that. And then I moved down to Texas. And after doing a short stint down there, medical field stuff, I came back up and we had started the Whiskey Barrel Society in 2000, I guess this was 14. We had started the Whiskey Barrel Society. The Whiskey Barrel Society was a uh enthusiast group on the internet, not much like some of the groups that you see now. But it was just solely based on drinking, sharing pores, talking about experiences. And we started seeing other groups start to do some private picks. And we're like, well, we have enough members, we can do that too, right? We had 800 members at a time. Why shouldn't we be able to buy a barrel and split it up amongst our members? We got lucky and partnered with a store, Corkin Bottle, in northern Kentucky, that allowed us to do a couple barrels through them. And so to make them legal, you have to clear them through a store, right? So we we had uh selected two barrels with Mandy, and they were coming into Corkin Corkin Bottle at the time. I was moving right back up from Texas. And so the cork and bottle had a table sitting right out in the middle of their showroom. They had a huge showroom, it was a 10,000 square foot store. It was unbelievably huge. And they had a meeting table right in the middle so that the manager could have meetings with the reps or whatnot and still keep an eye on the store at the same time. So we were sitting at the table trying one of our bottles with the general manager Tim Tim at the time, Tim Hugh. And yeah, the Hugh family is also extraordinarily famous in the whiskey industry. I don't know if you're familiar with them, but um Gordy and Gordon, their father, started Cork and Bottle, but they also started Age Hirsch. So I'm certain that brand sticks out to a lot of people. But Tim, he was the general manager at the time, and I didn't know it, but the the store had just gone through bankruptcy. Um, the the kids, the the siblings couldn't get along, and it ended up, it wasn't for lack of resources, it was just they needed to split the company up quickly and nobody had the assets to buy each other out. So they had to go through bankruptcy and split it up that way. And so they did, and the the store I was working at was the second location up on Buttermilk Pike. And so we were sitting there on the server floor and trying our whiskey, and I looked, happened to look over, and there was uh three or four people sitting over in the standing over in the bourbon section looking at bourbon. They had the classic pose where they had one hand on the hip, their jaw kind of cocked to the side, the hand on the jaw, staring blankly at a wall of whiskey and no idea what they were looking at. It was so plain that they had absolutely no idea what to do. And so I asked Tim as I was sitting there kind of bored. I'm like, hey, you want me to go there and talk to him and see if I can help him? He goes, sure, go ahead. I guess he was bored too. So I walked over there with a glass of whiskey in the liquor store. As I was sitting on my glass of whiskey, I started talking to him, and I had a lot of fun talking to the people. And then I started to ask them questions what do you normally drink? What do you like? I found out they were buying bottles for friends of theirs

The Liquor Store Moment That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_03 9:23

and had no idea what they normally drink. So I started explaining to them what I liked and why I liked it. They saw me sitting at the table with a glass of whiskey and they said, Well, he must know what he's doing, and they bought six bottles of whiskey from me. And I get back over to the table and Tim's standing there and he's got his jum wide open. He goes, How the hell did you do that? So let's talk to him about whiskey. It's fun. You just talk to the people and tell them what you like and don't like and tell them why you don't like it. They listen to you. He goes, Do you need a job? And I literally, that was the week I moved back up from South Texas. And when I say South Texas, I was 15 minutes north of Brownsville. I was at the very bottom of Texas. And so I didn't have a job lined up. My family was all backed up here, and I was moving back up. And so I'm like, you know, I'll do this part-time until I figure out something a little bit more permanent. I had been working in neurosurgery up to that point.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yeah, that's a big, that's a big jump. Neurosurgery to liquor store salesman.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, not even that. I was a stockboy.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

He didn't even give you the floor, huh?

SPEAKER_03 10:24

Yeah, they just said, hey, just put stuff away and stay busy. I said, okay, no problem. So I did that, but I started noticing a lot of the products they had just sitting around. And a lot of the products they had were things that we would find very, very interesting. But because they didn't have that much business, it was still sitting there from who knows when. And so I started contacting the people in our Facebook report, hey, you may want this, you may want this, if they may want this, let me know. And the problem with going through bankruptcy in a liquor store is you don't have terms. When you come out the other side, you don't have you don't have credit terms with them. And in a liquor industry, that's a death sentence. If you have to pay cash for everything, buy as a liquor store up front, unless you're independently wealthy, which is likely not the case, or you would have terms, you're you're indeed due. Right. So we were actually able to pull off a miracle, and I flipped that store back into existence again, just through the products they already had, and then through doing private bottles, private barrels again. And I had a lot of fun picking private picks.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I mean, barrel picks, I don't care what you say. There I don't it you do your first and you've done, you know, you're on your 30th, or you, you know, the internet says you've done over 250, but it's still fun every time because it's it becomes a challenge to come up with new ways to keep it even more interesting to find something even more exciting.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

I mean, I've done picks that would make everybody and their brothers job hit the floor. I was able to take part in Victor's only private barrel tenure selection. Um, I did the very first barrels of Stag Junior private picks. I've done a three-barrel blend of Old Weller Antique. I don't know anybody that besides like two liquors, two major, major liquor teams that have done any blends with Old Weller Antique. They're all single barrels. Nobody has allocations. I mean, I've done like, I don't know, 14 barrels of four roses. I mean, it's just crazy stuff. Pao Jung was a good friend of mine. I got to go to the wild turkey on my 40th birthday and just hang out in a rickhouse with Eddie Russell and take a barrel for my 40th birthday. And then I got to repeat the process again on my 41st birthday. It's like the wild things that you were able to take part of in the industry, that's what's special to me. Yeah. That's what all the memories for me. It's like I got to meet some of my favorite people that I know now in life sitting in lines waiting for releases before I ever worked in the industry. I loved it. But that's how I got kind of into it. And so when I was at Corcum Bottle, I did a private, I did a blend with a no-name distillery. I think it was 2017, that one pound for pound whiskey of the year on verbinard.com. And that just absolutely put everything into overdrive for the for the store. It was wild. We had 750 people camped out over 24 hours in advance to buy a bottle of the next. It was absolutely insane how fast and how many people were there and how what a good time everybody was having. We had a DJ there, the owner of the liquor store. It was really funny. That was his first time ever seeing one of my releases was for that release, and there were 750 people camped out there. He had big old saucer eyeballs, and he goes, Man, this is incredible. How did you do this? I said, I just talked to people about whiskey. It's fun.

Barrel Picks That Built A Reputation

SPEAKER_03 13:31

But so I realized that working there that, you know, I can do this a little bit larger scale. I can make a little bit more people happy, and I can go out and kind of do it on my own without the restrictions of the corporate overlords and maybe do some things that I really enjoy doing. And so I found a couple enthusiasts that are like-minded like myself, and we ended up joining in together, and we're all enthusiasts to begin with. So when we make products, we're making them for ourselves. Um everybody else gets the benefit, but with the whole point of us doing this is so that we have plenty of great bottles to drink.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

So when I started telling them what I wanted to do, and they had already seen everything, a quark and bottle, and we started talking. They said, Yeah, no, this sounds like an amazing idea. I said, I want to spend a lot of money on packaging. They said, Why do you want to do that? I said, Because if it looks good, it tastes good. I said, if it tastes good and it looks good, then you have the complete package and everybody's going to want your product. And so when you see when I when you got your tubes, you notice that they aren't 200 milliliter samples. I think that our packaging and our products go hand in hand. Oh yeah. So I went out of our way and I made sure that anybody that's doing reviews or tasting our products has an opportunity to have the packaging as well as the product.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So you won awards for the packaging.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

It's the first time I've ever designed a package.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Well, I can tell you dropping your logo in blown glass at the bottom is is kind of what would you say? Thinking outside of the bottle, but putting it inside. I mean, I love the the base too of the rising tide. The base just reminds me of the 1920s. That that that what would you say? The it it gives you the feeling of the splashing neon and all the not not the 20s on the Art Deco or whatever. It's more of the what would you say, the crime investigator movie kind of thing where it's got that and you you look at it and it's just it's it's a it's a fantastic bottle, but you're right, if if it's a fantastic bottle and the whiskey's not good, people and and you basically have this at a price of premium whiskey to have somebody buy another bottle, it's gotta be really good whiskey. Now, when the fuck did you realize that your palette was aligned? I mean, at what point with the people who love and drink bourbon on the allocated kind of higher end, those those palettes, you know, there's a specific group of people your palette aligns to where you're spot on. You know, good, you know good whiskey, but you're putting out some really, really it I would say it's rich. A lot of times old stubborn picks up those those rates. And I know where you got it, you know, we all know the end where you got it from. I mean, if all you got to do is go on the internet. I know you it's a non-disclosure, but it's been

Launching Old Stubborn And Winning On Packaging

SPEAKER_02 16:51

so far publicized by other groups or whatever. But and then, you know, then you know, just talk about you develop the old stubborn with a limited amount of whiskey to go completely crazy, but now you've got the old to talk about then now the old swagger, and then we'll talk about the rise right after that because I know you're in a hurry.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

That's okay. So, old stubborn, I have a relationship with a distillery, a very, very, very good relationship, and I've had it with them for a very long time. One of the things I pride myself in is making friends in good places, and so I have a lot of friends in distilleries. And so when I started looking for the products to be able to launch my brands, I started putting some calls out to people, and it was real shocking how little of availability product there was out there at that time. There really just wasn't a whole lot out there. But I started talking with my friends at this distillery, and they told me specifically that they had a problem. They had a product that they had created that they couldn't do anything with because it was nothing like what they're currently producing, and but there wasn't anything wrong with it, it just wasn't anything like what they were currently producing. I'm an NDP, I don't have to stay one single thing the entire time. I can make any moves I want to make, it's fantastic. So they're like, hey, I know you're really gonna get started. Why don't we partner up on this? And I said, you know, I think that's a great idea. I started talking to my investors, and they said, you know, I think this is a good idea. I started tasting the products, and the time I started tasting them, it was really hard because it was in February. If you know anything about barrels in the middle of dead litter of winter, they're they're sick. Until they warm up, they're sick. They don't taste right. Winter, winter makes them extraordinarily astringent. That's just what happens with whiskey. So I'm tasting them, I'm going, oh man, I don't know. Maybe this isn't for us. And then I'm going, hold on a minute. I took him inside and I let him warm up, and I'm like, whoa, now we're talking. And when I started tasting through them again after they had warmed up, they were absolutely home runs. And I'm like, yeah, this is gonna go great. So that's where old Thurber came from. We ended up with several hundred barrels of that, and it was great. And at some point in time it'll come to an end, and we'll have to transition the product that's inside of the bottle, and it'll become a different product, liquid-wise, but it will always be an upper-end, high-end product.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Are you uh okay? So I'm gonna ask you this question. You can say no comment. Are you working at the moment on creating, you know, I mean, it's so as an NDP, you can go someplace and have somebody make stuff for you and start aging.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Do you really want to do that? I mean, we're talking so if you think about that now, right? How long does it take whiskey to age?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Well, I understand that, but you're at the point where you've you're developing the the actual product, and I and you're really we've we've talked about this on the podcast for the last couple weeks or a couple months. That as the you're in your sweet spot as far as when you're producing and and and and your the internet and your releases don't lie. I mean, it's even you you got to experience this a little bit when you were doing your single barrels because people started coming to you know where you were, and then when you were releasing single barrels, you had a group of people that were there and they were just gone from you know right away, correct?

SPEAKER_03 20:15

I mean, there was lines, and it was you had gotten a whole we got to the point where every time we would release a private pick, there'd be a line at the door, regardless of what the pick was. We I remember specifically we brought Blom Brothers into Kentucky. We were the first place to bring them into Kentucky, and I did five private barrels with them as a launch. We did five barrels as a launch with them. Yeah, insanity, and they were gone within an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Those guys are wild too.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

But the whole point was is nobody had heard of them.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

But we were literally the first place to have them. I brought in five barrels, but because of our reputation on picking barrels, it made them disappear quickly. Well we we we seem to align when I go to do picks, I seem to have a palette that aligns with the with the people that really enjoy the higher-end whiskey, like you were saying. But it it's more than that. I think I've refined it over the years because I'm not gonna say every pick I've ever done is just a rock, uh you know, the best thing ever, but there's definitely been a lot of them that when put in side-by-sides with other bottles of the same product, that it it was clear that they were just significantly better. So I I don't know the answer to your question on when that happened, but I think it was over time. I think it's just through practice, much like anything else. And it's finding out when and plus also having real-time data really made it nice too. So I could see how people actually reacted to the picks I was doing in real time as I was telling them, they were able to taste them right there in front of me. I could tell whether or not it was something that the an average person would like or something that somebody who had to be a little bit more nuanced would enjoy, or you know, and usually it came down to barrel-proof and proof. I mean, I've noticed that a lot. Like if we did a pick on let's say 1792 bottled and bond, anybody could drink that. But if we did a smooth ambler that was 138 proof, you know, there was maybe you know a few people that could drink that normally. So proof had a lot to do with it, but you know, it's just refining your refining what you're looking for over time, and then also making sure that you're choosing wisely.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

So now you have a brand. I'll quick ask you, do you still enjoy other brands?

SPEAKER_03 23:24

I mean, as as a Yeah, we're enthusiasts, we drink everything.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

I'm not I'm not uh I'm not just the guy that only drinks what he is. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Well, some people some people have to just drink what they have, otherwise they're gonna get in trouble. But that's usually distiller, so you know what I mean? So, all right, so we're coming down to now you've done the you you just released the rise and but what what I've noticed is you've got the the fanfare for your brand unlike in my opinion I see a lot of what would you say a lot of craft distillers and uh distilleries or NDP people releasing their brands and and because of the level of the amount of a smaller release I don't I don't see the the let up hitting people like yourself or those craft distillers because they release it and it's just every you know they got lines and they go. I mean it's not like any of them have anything sitting around. If it's sitting around they're just letting it age in the barrel a little bit longer so till

Selling Out Releases Without Going Big

SPEAKER_02 24:37

their next release. So it's almost like the perfect storm right now for NDPs and craft distilleries and craft type people I I would say you're a craft because you're you're blending together smaller levels of whiskey you know the bear amount of barrels it's a smaller batch and producing this high quality whiskey that people want and I watch it go online and I mean I think this last release you were almost sold out in pre-sale we do that most of the time with the exception of the new brands whenever we release a new brand it takes a couple weeks to sell out but then the next time we release it it's gone immediately because people realize how good it is I'll argue the fact that we're not craft to me craft is the guys that are finishing raspberry barrels and honey barrels and putting them together making raspberry honey bourbon or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

That's all craft to me I'm just a normal bourbon guy in small production and to me that's not craft. I'm not doing anything crazy I'm not doing anything out of the norm. I'm doing just things normally at a really high quality so to me I'm I'm not craft but I mean I understand the philosophy behind it. The problem that we have with that is there's no clear definition of what craft whiskey is.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Well I'm thinking more like the like for instance McBrayer was just on I mean they're just releasing bourbon too I mean they he he's very similar I mean he wanted to start his own brand and he bought the he didn't he didn't want to start his own brand he just wanted his family trademarks and then he wanted to just distill one barrel at Wilderness Trail so he could keep his trademarks and they're like well you got to do 10 and they and then his lawyer's like but you do have to sell some of it and selling it is and then he found out about you know so how he went about it was like crazy to listen to but he's in it for the same reason you're in it because you're you're you it's your love of whiskey and bourbon to be able to do this and you just keep getting bigger small and small increments and just keep going but you when when you sell out in pre-sale what the I mean it's like it's it's kind of like I if if I just let all the people we do a bus tour and I let the couple years ago I had to work to sell the tickets now I basically put them out to the people and then I basically say do you need if the couple people who aren't going again do you need some and it's got and it's sold out and it's just the same thing with you. It's just if you want to sell to the general public and make yourself bigger you have to purposely just have your pre-sale only have a certain amount and then go out to correct the problem that you got is that there's plenty of bottles sitting on the shelf but they're still sitting on the shelf right so when those brands go to restock the shelves and the product's still sitting there it doesn't do any good because the stores are like well we still have some so I think until until we're not really looking to be huge scale at least not with these brands maybe in the future with another brand we might be more on the shelf fighting for shelf based on it.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

But right now I'm real comfortable in the in the small production high quality releases because that's what we want to drink.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

I mean honestly if you're gonna go into the high shelf if you're gonna go into the shelf I know you'll do the right thing. You'll just make make sure everybody knows you I mean people that's to me I've always it's it whiskey and bourbon is about people and I and people that don't understand when you just put something on the shelf and you don't put anybody in there to make theirs or you don't do anything so people recognize what's going on. That's why the master distiller on some of the distilleries to put that's why they have them because they want a recognizable figure to go with their their whiskey and then a lot of the craft people same thing and then you yourself if you're blending I mean the other blender right now who's hot as hell is Macaulay Minton I mean from Dark Arts I mean that guy has a personality and you meet him and when you go into the liquor store on the shelf where he's you basically think of him. You know what I mean? What are you gonna do? You're gonna are you going to buy some black velvet or which you don't have any clue it's just whiskey or are you going to buy something where you met the guy?

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Yeah. The problem is you got to meet everybody if you do that.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

You? Well no I think you got to do I think you I mean honestly I think in your future are some bottle signings and whatever you know if you're going to in and that's all that has to happen and then you got to do podcasts like this. I mean you when you came on the last time and I know we're getting when you came on the last time it was like you brought the samples of the barrels and then you blended with me and gave me a really good insight of what blending is that I I I you can sit there and know about it. I've watched people do it but to actually do it like we did was something that was very very unique for me. And then I've since then gone into some places I I think it was Jay Mattingly they actually have a whole blending thing where you get to have a lot of fun with barrels and stuff like that. But what you did for making a batch not a bottle was was it was cool as hell. I mean I can't and you drove six what was it five hours and then five hours back I mean it was like you're driving back he's like you can you know nope I gotta be back so where are you now at at this point? Michigan still okay so you know what one of these times I've been going up there so much one of these times I gotta I think I'm seeing another hold on real quick I'm gonna see there's another oh great how did that do that all right let's go back hit the live all right did someone put in all right Kirk what is going on okay so I got these super chats you're you're bringing the people I mean this one's a fifth this I I've never had a $50 super chat all right it says cheers to Ed we need some dudes like this in the industry I love Ed's story okay and then he says P.S. Randy you win tonight because he did a $200 one so and then okay so let's see if the $200 one said anything nope it's just no there's it's just a $200 donation because you're on well thank you helps you out no I mean this is kind of fun I'm not used to this while I get away with that and so all right so let's quick get into the I know you gotta go so let's just quick talk about the old swagger you want to end and your old stubborn rise that that that you just released.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Old swagger into a 12 year MTP Rhyme what I've learned with the MTP Rise is they get really really good over 10 um but uh so the old swagger rye may get released again at some point in the future but currently right that's gonna be it for a while on that one.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Then the old stubborn rye I have no intentions on releasing one of those again at least not with this uh distillant we only had a few barrels of it I tasted them they were fantastic I'm like let's just roll them and we did so the one time one and done on the old stubborn okay okay and then I'm not always a huge rye fan but I found out recently my rye sweet spot where I'm not a rye fan is when you get below a hundred yeah that I I pick up notes that are ranted to me but if we stay above a hundred now this is cast

Rye Whiskey Deep Dive And The Dill Note

SPEAKER_02 32:30

strength I mean the old swagger 12 years cast strength plus it's 12 year and I and really when when when MGP rye's get into that and there's not a lot of 12 year MGP rye out there I mean into the 6'7 you know area it gets caramely so what I've learned about rye what I've learned about all all MGP display in particular is that it picks up pickle notes if it sits in the in the fermentation tank too long it doesn't get run fast enough.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

So I think what you're noticing is is when those younger ones get perfect down it exposes that pickle and mint note combination that doesn't taste good. However what I have noticed is the longer they sit in that barrel, the more that note is muted and the more the sweetness kicks in and overwhelms it along with the the richness of the oak and it's absolutely a fantastic combination.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

And I like I I don't mind the chocolate and the mint that come through. So this one has a little minty part but you're right that dill I don't know why I I love dill pickles but in whiskey it does not taste good to me. So you want to know what I usually do with those I make I haven't made an actual vodka Bloody Mary in in like nine years. I get I get I get one of those bottles and it's straight into the Bloody Mary because where would where do you want the pickle flavor anyways right in the Bloody Mary and it's drowned out in tomato juice. So you know that makes for some nice Sunday mornings and I get rid of the rice those specific rice I don't like and usually the tomato juice gets rid of the I get this this grassy it smells to me like you put your grass at the on a 90 degree day for a week out on your uh to wait and it just gets that I don't like that smell and you get more with barley that you're smelling usually what I found is well first of all I suppose the grass is fermenting.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

What you're gonna notice is that none of my ries have that pickle note I don't do that either. So you won't find it in these MGP ones. I am very I'm looking very cautious on selecting those type of barrels that don't have that I I learned that it had everything to do with how long it was sitting in a fermentation tank.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Well I I also know Hunter Coffee who worked at Whiskey Thief for a long time he told me that he goes rice are really unique he goes I usually when I'm they're getting close you know six seven years he goes I'm ty I'm tasting them like twice a month he goes every two weeks he goes and it's weird because two weeks go by and all of a sudden it's a minty chocolatey and then I'll like well let's let it see if we can get some caramel and then all of a sudden it'll have the he's like it's got the dill two weeks later it's got the dill and then then he's then he waits a little bit longer and there it is and he's like okay we're gonna bottle this it's really wild how it works.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

I will say that some of my favorite spirits have been rye whiskey. Maryland, Pennsylvania and Illinois were some of the most famous states for producing rye whiskey back in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 60s Maryland rye typically was a low rye recipe rye. So it's like 51 to 55% well that produced those extremely fruity whiskey had a lot of fruit notes to it. And I'm talking soft fruit notes it was fantastic. But then those Illinois ones started to get a little bit of that char built into it and the Pennsylvania ones had the spice on top of it. So it was a very distinct difference between all three states distillation during that time period. If you ever have a chance to try any provision style ries pay attention to where they were made and it'll tell you the style of rye that you're like throwing out a really good plug for Brad Bonds at revival your good friend so it's really funny is Paul Jackson who used to work for Smooth Anally works for another distillery now but uh he he and I used to have rye conversations all the time. He's a huge rye fan. And so I ended up buying a bunch of minis because I wanted to try a bunch of rye so that era and I didn't want to spend you know $100,000 on bottles. So I ended up buying a bunch of the 50 mils from a guy that collected this that were all rye whiskeys from different states all during that same time period and I got to try 12 different rye samples from the 30s and 40s all side by side and the KL ries were absolutely fantastic. There were so many good ones Golden Wedding from Pennsylvania another fantastic ride from them but if you ever got the chance I strongly suggest trying some Provision style rides because they will blow your doors off.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Well one of the things that you know the the newer stolen wolf up there Eric Wolf is doing some good stuff with and I've got to taste what they're doing and they're using those those Mickter recipes and all that kind of stuff. And then Kim and Alan Bishop did this um colonial rye that I got to taste out of the barrel that's fantastic. But I'm gonna tell you both yours the old swagger 12 year old is fantastic. I mean and you can I mean that's something you don't have a problem you can make it as much as you want but the old stubborn is I would say a special a special thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

It's really wild how dark it is at the same age range as though look at the difference in the two bottles and they're about the same age. Right the the swagger and the stubborn so you can see the color difference that slow aging process in the colder climate from where that came from it definitely made those barrels much richer.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

I don't know why I mean you can even see it right there. You got the the 12 and then you got that and they're they're they're they're doing the thing but you know it's exactly what it you know people that's why I'm excited about what Pennsylvania is bringing back their rye in it it makes sense to bring it back. One the rye grows heartily in that those areas they're not growing they weren't growing as much wheat and corn as the Midwest and then and then they just it the climate is colder I mean it just is than what's happening. So you the way it ages and goes down is a lot different than and you you know and it's just they they know that that part of the country does a good job.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Yeah for sure all right definitely and the rye has been fantastic but uh you know I I like rye whiskey but rye whiskey's a hard sell in this market right now for some reason.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

The guys that drink Burbit aren't getting it like well because okay so it's a hard sell because they still want their allocated stuff but they now have to make choices and like for me I come down to the collection and I go what do I if I'm I want to pour which is rare because it's usually I come down and I drink on the podcast but it's like what do I want and I'm gonna I I'm picking a bourbon over a rye 99 out of a hundred times I mean I don't usually cut so if you're making that decision of what to buy right now and you have to basically cut back you're like well I'll keep buying as just as much bourbon as I always have but I won't buy the buy the excess ryes or try them because it's usually an experimentation you know what I mean for a bourbon drinker.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Now I think so too I like being able to try people on so where I work now I'm able to allow people to sample them as as we go out there today it's nice to see their reaction to it every time they see it they're like where can I get it where can I get it it's just I think it comes down to more people just understanding that this one in particular old swagger it is up there. I really enjoy that bottle I think it turned out I would say I would say it's fantastic. Anybody out there if you want to buy but I mean how much is available still I mean there is some there is some three wines has a few left brand has a few left out at revival but I mean a few they also had huge allocations of them so there isn't much left with them but they do have a few bottles left if you wanted to pop in there.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

The other one would be the Bourbon concierge has a few left I think he had like five or six hundred models to start with but he's down to under 100 so I mean there's not many left it's moving I mean it's for for what it but but it should move I mean the the the more you get out I mean I've you you you come to the right guy overall for me because what the what I am is kind of what you're presenting and that's probably what you are that's one of the reasons why I got into this because of bookers. I mean bookers is exactly it it was unique it's the first ever barrel proof uncool uncut unfiltered bourbon to ever go in a bottle and then they have a wooden box and they got a card I mean I'm a baseball card collector right if they give you a card that you can't read because because it's so little but at least they like put it in big fonts on online same thing what you've done tube but you know and and and Taylor really you know was the one that really got that tube thing where but you have a you have a this is a giant freaking tube there's there's no tube like this on the market. Plus I showed everybody it comes with the plastic insert on top and bottom because of the neck of what your bottle is now this bottle this bottle existed before it's not brand new right there's a the they've had styles like it but not with what's inside well no so the style that there was a shape that was kind of similar but I completely customized it for us.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

So that that bowling pin style shape bottle has been around I mean Hell Beam had a bowling pin bottle years ago.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Yeah but that's more of a bowling pin.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Yeah so if you take the base off of there take a look at that bottle without the base and you're gonna notice that it's very similar shape. Okay yeah that's that shape has been around but what I did was I customized it with our molds. In fact the bottom one that you're looking at the rising tide in Boston at the bottom was my last mold I did. That one took some convincing I had to convince my investors on that one.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

And I'm like well you know they're gonna keep these bottles afterwards and when they take the label off how will they ever know it was ours and they're like okay oh but God I mean but then you did it with the coolest I mean honestly I love the base. Yeah I mean yeah and and and this and this ain't falling over I mean the three mules it took and then to convince my investors that we had to put that kind of outlay on packaging alone they're like wow well but the key is is then once the what convince them is okay here's the release and it's like I don't got any left bourbon is a pie right the whiskey the whiskey sold the bottles sold the tubes sold and they sold for you're not in you're not in the market of competition craft distillers who are trying to keep their stuff between 60 and 70 dollars which they do really nice. You're in the market of the people who want to drink something special have something special and that market you know you're this is in the air of Johnny Walker blue. You know these people you know you're you're in that market and you released into it and have done it almost seamlessly I mean I'm sure you probably if you went behind the scenes there was a lot of a lot of different shit hitting the fan but overall the way it looked to the public you pulled it off.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

Well thank you I mean yeah it wasn't as easy as it looked that's for sure it's been a challenging hard step of the way and so far we still haven't made it we're still growing and doing the best we can so I think we have a long way to go we're gonna do the best we can in putting out the best products every time though because I honestly that's what we want to drink.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

So that's that's perfect. I mean okay and then your your last one quick which was the 13 old swagger no I've just got all the spiciness of the rye in my on my you know and once again the coolest is you pull this little plastic insert out and then at the bottom there's one down there so that when you drop the bottle to the bottom unlike tail all the other places it hits a nice little plastic cushion so I mean thought of everything but that's the 13 year old old swagger with but I mean I just love your logo in the bottom I mean it just like I in the bottom of the bottle it's kind of like I think people will drink I think they're gonna drink it faster so they can see the cardinal It's like we gotta get this level down so I actually can see the cardinal.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

It's fun when I turn the bottle sideways to show it to people poking up out of the liquid they're with.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Yeah, but but I mean sometimes you if you do this light, like I got a ring light in there, I you guys can't, but you hit it right, the whole thing glows. It's beautiful. And then so this one, so this one again, you've got now you can play around with this one too, the old swagger. Now, are you purchasing barrels and letting them age in in in warehouses to keep it going, you know, and then deciding when you're gonna so what what's that like having a where where where do you have that located and everything?

SPEAKER_03 46:31

We all of our barrels are now in Stanford, Kentucky. And we have a facility down there we work with several hundred barrels. Quite a bit. We buy barrels all the time. It's uh it's part of the process.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Are you so and then has the new market with the barrels now is it been finding it that what you were paying a lot more for, you don't have to pay as much for?

SPEAKER_03 46:56

It depends on the product. Like it really depends on the product. So it's exactly something there's still people coming around going, you know, you need to spend ten thousand dollars a bar a barrel on this Kentucky 13-year burden or whatever. And I'm like, no. However, I'm going to tell you, just between me and your uh your little podcast group here, this winter-ish, there may be a significantly higher aged old stubborn style bottle coming out on

Aging Barrels In Kentucky And A 20-Year Hint

SPEAKER_03 47:26

the market.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Well, that sounds fantastic. Thank you for letting us know that. Well, I look at around 20-year-old product. Whoa, now that's nice.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Yeah. So nobody knows that. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

There's a little tidbit for your a 20-year-old. Holy shit. I know I deal with Mark Carter a lot with old Carter, and he's been released, he's been releasing those 20-year-olds. And if it's the those are white whiskey though. What?

SPEAKER_03 47:54

That's white whiskey though, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:56

Sometimes, but then he's done the 375s bourbons.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Oh, okay. No, ours will come in 750s, they're 20-year product.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Well, he likes, I mean, I I don't mind. Well, obviously, I don't think you can make this in a 375. A little, well, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

A little bird. They're hummingbirds inside.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Yeah, there you go. It'd get a little hummingbird one. Yeah, just change it. I mean, you know, you know, marketing is it's it's just you can be endless if you're creative. And you obviously are creative, and it's gone. And so, I mean, just the your your products, put it, your your palate aligns directly. I haven't tasted anything that isn't exactly what I want to taste when I'm drinking a bourbon. And I drink a lot, and some some things, you know, sometimes I I like the old swagger compared to the old stubborn. The old swagger, in my opinion, is a little bit more bourbon-esque. It's not quite as like the the old stubborn. You pick up either you're picking up these heavy raisin notes with caramel and everything. Where old swagger, you'll pick up the caramel and whatever, but you're picking up like more of a it's straight, it's bourbon. You know what I mean? There's it's it's got a right. So it's just like you're but there's nothing I've tasted I've tasted of yours. You I was so honored when you sent me the the single barrel. You gave me everybody was talking about the single barrel with only 50 some bottles, and I'm just like there was how many of them were so isn't there like 13 different barrels that you chose, and all of a sudden in the mail, it's like, really? I got the the one that everybody's talking about. I appreciate it. So anything else you want to tell everybody how I mean I can give back, unfortunately. Yep, yeah. But I mean, the the next release, a lot of times you release through revival, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:00

We do it, we do uh we have online partners, we have full Kentucky distribution. We may be picking up a couple additional states here this winter or spring, depending on how it goes through. And we're working on growing, it's just a slow process. But the reason we do online is because you have the majority of states can order from online, then you all have access to it.

SPEAKER_02 50:17

And we're all kind of getting, you know, we're figuring it out, and you're you're keep meeting the demand. So there you go. All right, man. Thanks for coming on. I'll finish up. You can you can go. So I appreciate it. Thank you for your time and enjoy the rest of your shift.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Thank you much. I appreciate y'all.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Take care. See you, brother.

SPEAKER_03 50:38

See you.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

All right, everybody. That was awesome. I'm gonna quick nine. That was perfect. I'm gonna end this and throw it out to everybody. Ed had to go, I know. Right. That was he just brought down the lightning. You guys, thunder and lightning, seriously, that's cool as hell. But Ed's great. I appreciate it. Thanks, you guys, on YouTube. I'm gonna end the podcast real quick and then throw it out to everybody to come on. I'm can I be on for a little bit, but not too long tonight because I want to get this up and loaded, but thank you for that. All right, everybody. WW, thank you, Ed Blay, for coming on. Oh, this is this is a fantastic brand. If you haven't tried it, you gotta. He told you it's still available somewhat online, so go grab that and it's it's well worth it. Every penny, every cent, it's great whiskey. If you're in this for a taste, he delivers. All right. So I think we covered it, so that was great having him on. Remember, we're the Scotchy Bourbon Boys, www.scotchyburbonboys.com for all things scotchy bourbon boys. Remember, you can get t-shirts, Glenn Karen's. Contact me direct for those. Um, we're getting close to gonna be doing a new t-shirt, so hopefully that comes out soon. And then also remember, we're on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and X, along with iHeart, Spotify, and Apple. But whether you listen to us or you watch us, make sure you leave us good feedback and do what Randy and Kirk were doing tonight. Holy crap! Very excited about that. It's like at one point in my life, I used to watch Bourbon Pursuit, and they were giving, you know, everybody's giving super chats, and it's people are starting to give super chats, and those super chats were fantastic. So thank you.

Where To Find Bottles And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_02 52:38

And thank you, Spanky, for that. But I'm gonna be basically throw out the link as soon as we're done here, and you guys can come on if you want. So, Spanky, hang in there if you want to. I'm gonna have the zoom link up in a sec. But remember, good bourbon and good friends. Good bourbon and good times equals good friends. Make good friends and good bourbon equal good times. Well, I blew that one. Make sure that you drink responsibly, don't drink and drive, and live your life like us. Uncut and unfiltered, and AI is going to take us out. Boom.